which is why it’s not allowed under the contract.

True. For clarity I should have specifically mentioned commuting *to reserve* as the particularly unpalatable choice for those folks.

Commuting to 13 days off at TK not much better, as a lot more are doing now. 9th year FO pay doesn’t buy much good in Denver anymore.

Have you talked to any Southwest guys lately? This all sounds very familiar.

Still not close again. “Just a couple weeks” lol

It seems obvious the “couple weeks” was based on a belief that he could waltz in and dictate the terms just like he did with the previous regime.

To our current leaders, I say STAY STRONG and STAY THE COURSE!

This👆. We would have had a quick deal if we agreed to current book using the Delta pay rates. We’re asking for costly improvements in practicality every section, and this is not going to be done in a couple of weeks. I know that people say that you shouldn’t negotiate in public, but I am willing to concede a Tumi suitcase in order to get a true industry leading contract.

It must be noted that this is an almost 100% rewrite of multiple sections. I don't think anyone could work all of them out in 2 weeks. Looking forward to reading the final product if its anywhere near what the ask is.

it’s already written… it’s the DAL agreement with a little United stink spread around.

How do you know what the actual ask is? All I’ve seen is vague emails from the union about work rule and QOL improvements, nothing specific at all. This is all closed session stuff, we don’t find out until a TA is released (with the exception of a few leaks once we get to the AIP point).

Better make it count. Scotty is on a mission to hire every uneducated dumb SOAB with a couple hundred hours warming up the right seat he can find.

An educated pilot with left seat experience and knows their worth gives your boy Scotty nightmares.

Scotty knows he’ll be able to gather easy YES votes in future negotiations with these low IQ, zero to hero, new hires.

So you have a class date here then?

it will take 1 week to create an AIP to a TA according to people involve with the process

and I say keep the course they will cave because the leverage our pilot group has is best ever !

Anyone get today's (3/20) MEC NC update and can post? Heard progress was made.

Check your email.

20 March 2023 Negotiating Committee Update

Last week, the Negotiating Committee (NC) met with management in direct negotiations focusing on Scheduling and Quality of Work Life (QWL) provisions. Scheduling and Staffing Subject Matter Experts (SMEs) also met to work on the many detailed topics contained within these provisions.

Additionally, Master Chair CA Garth Thompson and Negotiating Chair CA Phil Otis met with management leadership to discuss the overall progress of negotiations and discuss pathways to clear the obstacles preventing us from completing negotiations more expeditiously.

The parties exchanged proposals in most of the open areas. Management has now received the full details of our comprehensive proposal. While work continues to address differences of opinion regarding costing assumptions, management is now able to fully assess the economics that ALPA has put on the table. However, like many negotiations, the effort to close the economic gap proceeds slowly while other items remain open. This gap is largely driven by our differences in opinion with management on what constitutes an industry-leading agreement.

During the week, we continued exhaustive discussions on necessary improvements to reserve quality of life and line holder scheduling provisions. As details of those provisions are coming into focus, management has been receptive to the need to update our work rules for the first time since 2012. Our MEC and Negotiating Committee have made these issues a priority and will not rush past them.

We are making progress on improvements in the following areas, among others: increased days off for reserves, more rigid and transparent reserve assignment order, improved reserve call out times, improved reassignment restrictions, benefits for pilots affected by reassignments that return late, and finalizing the G-line and LPA much sooner in the bidding window.

We reached agreement in multiple areas, including improved rigs, improved expense limits and provisions, improved parental leave provisions, HDO (Holy Day Off) flexibility, new trip trading options, improved day off restoration provisions, and improved furlough protections.

In summary, in the several weeks since ALPA’s aggressive comprehensive proposal in early February, we have achieved gains in many areas important to United pilots, including areas where historically the Company has been reluctant to agree. Still, more work remains to be done.

The Negotiating Committee and SMEs will continue sessions with their management counterparts over the next couple of weeks leading up to the April 3-7 regular MEC meeting. Our primary goals are closing out the remaining Scheduling and QWL areas and seeking meaningful progress to narrow the gap in economic areas where we remain far apart.

As always, your interest, engagement and public displays of unity are meaningful and appreciated. Our next Negotiating Notes update is scheduled for Monday, March 27.

*everyone else just shook their heads and sighed*

How many times will we come back to the table before we file for mediation? The MEC continues to talk about how Delta was successful in getting their agreement, while ignoring to do the most important thing, instead opting for the RV route.

The fact that the latest NC update still mentions the G-line and HDO "flexibility" tells me our PBS isn't going anywhere anytime soon, global reserve is still alive, and obligations to the company on your days off are still a thing. Not a single mention of short call or FSB as well. I fear we'll get an agreement with the smallest QOL changes, but once the masses see the $480 pay rates we'll be stuck with these work rules for another decade.

Disagree…
Believe our Union has heard from the pilots. They know that QoL is a major issue here. Not just for the senior/legacy crowd, but just as much for the post mergers and especially for the new hires.
They will HAVE to address that, unless they want to lose pilots hired here within the last few years to Delta… and the morale of many of those hired after C’12.

Pay? Sure.. we all want that. But $480 an hour would only be for the top of our food chain. 777/787 Capts. I would be shocked if that affects 10% of our group. Don’t believe it will have the power to sway the MEC, let alone the pilot group.
[wouldn’t be worried about the pay.. as it seems they don’t even WANT to give us Delta rates (yet!) lol ]

I still expect a TA that equals or exceeds Deltas PWA. If not, I expect a union email telling us they are going to request mediation (in less than a month!) followed by a campaign to tell potential new hires to look elsewhere.
May 12- picketing, Nationwide.

No ILC23 that represent Dignity & Respect of not only our Profession, but for those who sacrificed to keep United alive almost 20 years ago- expect Mediation plus picketing and say good night to United Next.
United could have been?

Motch

PS) Yet we will remain
Professional
Safe
and we will Fly our Contract.

Based on the MEC updates and hearing the MEC chair in person, I believe they are working to secure those QOL gains in addition to meet/beat the Delta payrates. I wish the previous MEC would have filed for meditation rather than push the tumi TA, but as long as the current negotiations are making progress (which can be very subjective), I agree with not filling for meditation. Once they go down that road, it's likely a 12+ month process. I see it as a rather low risk to give these negotiations a chance for a month or two.

It is not time for mediation. The years spent getting to this point is irrelevant. We have started over with a new MEC and a new list of demands. The company is meeting with the negotiating committee on a regular basis and our union says that while differences remain, progress is being made. It sounds like we now have a MEC that actually represents the line pilots. Starting over is a big task and we’re going to have to allow them time.

The information is out there if you know where to look. The ask summary doc has been floating around other forums as well. Not sure how far off that will look from the final product.

Can you share where to specifically look for those of us who don’t know where to look. I’ve read all union comm but wondering if there’s more out there. Thanks.

Anything that isn’t coming directly from the union is of questionable source and/or validity. (For now, the only official line is that the two parties are still far apart & meeting regularly.) Anything else you find is worth only whatever faith you have in the source you find it through. If you were around here for all the TUMI 1 “leaks”, you’ll know exactly what I’m talking about.

Quoted only because that's 100% right.

Just a few more weeks…

bingo. Let’s all thank the previous reps that refused to resign and instead cost us more months of recalls and votes, with our middle finger of course.

no offense RajinCajun but you have been saying this same nonsense for more than just a few weeks now

I’ve just personally seen motivation and movement in the past few weeks….more than I have ever seen in the past 12. The ask looks great. The rules look good. It’s a numbers and patience game. Let’s hope the credit market can hold out…and a rate cut mid-summer.

…If the ask you have seen is real, as they usually aren’t. I’m sure it’s great, just don’t put a whole lot of stock in anything except that from the horse’s mouth.

love the optimism. JPow just said at the FOMC meeting 2 days ago no rate cuts this year. Previously the markets had priced in 100 basis point drop this year.

Reading between the lines a bit, the NC message today looks like progress is being made on multiple fronts and is far more optimistic then the last few updates from them.

Agreed, I have always thought April, and think that timeframe may still be in play.

I honestly don’t think the actual negotiation is that hard, we know about the final number it will be, but can it get out of MEC and to pilots for a vote is a bigger question for me. Some of council communications are so much more domm and glom and make it sound like it will be years. SMH

“however, they continue to offer pay rates that match Delta and remain silent on changes to profit sharing.”

Not a problem as long as they expect to pay us 6 hours Pay Per Day, 6 hours Vacation Credit, 6 hours Training Pay, 6 Hours Reserve Pay, etc…

Hope EVERYONE who is a Union Pilot at our carrier is getting their finances in order.. and is ready for what happens next.
As an old CAL pilot, we were “told” to get our Strike Fund built up back in 08..
After what happened with CoVid and the unrealistic threats of massive furloughs.. I hope others have a plan for a rainy day.

Less than a month till we either have a TA or request Mediation, in my book.

Till the -
Fly Safe
Fly Professionally &
Fly the Contract

Motch

Agreed, but I “hope” our Union (both United and National) have learned from the Past and are getting the TA language done as sections are completed.
Once our NC and management states.. “we have an AIP” I expect the TA to be delivered to our MEC within a few days and the group gets Points too. Like Delta did-

Motch

PS- Having a AIP/TA by mid to late Apr would still get us a 45 day RoadShow & Vote for May into June. I expect we will have a new UPA by July bid period even if some of the work rules have implication dates. Though, there’s a price for that too!

6 hours vacation credit would pay 123 credit for 2 weeks vacation in a 31 day month. 6 hours training credit would pay 180 credit for a month of upgrade/transition. WAHOO. Sign me up!! ;)

Is that 2 Yes Votes?
Do I hear Three?

Bueller? Bueller?
https://youtu.be/VZXXuUEUGO0

Damnit Motch, I’m with you. Between your ideas and Mario’s letter this morning, C-5 guys should run this show. Time to can our C34 reps for real this time and install someone who can lift heavy.

We aren’t on a time crunch where we have to have something agreed to by some arbitrary date. It’s likely too early for arbitration or a strike vote since both sides are meeting regularly and negotiating in good faith. We had a weak MEC and a pandemic since our agreement became amendable. We just now cleaned house in the union and have basically started over with a much stronger team. We are all tired of waiting, but things are progressing and I don’t know what mediation could provide at this stage. At the end of the day, the company is going to have to pay more than they want, we’re going to get less than we want, and the total cost will probably be pretty close to what Delta got. We want a deal now, but we also have to give the new MEC time to work.

User name checks out :D