Airline Pilot Central Forums - 4 Items in 5 Weeks

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)

- United (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/)

- - 4 Items in 5 Weeks | Company is Stalling (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/142650-4-items-5-weeks-company-stalling.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half wing (Post 3631642)

Kirby thinks we are all staffed up for this summer. So that ship has sailed. In order to be staffed up for next summer, we need to start filling CA NB seats by Christmas. So Kirby will give us an AIP by Halloween. The union is just a leaf in the wind.

You are living in a dream world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaginCajun (Post 3631710)

You are living in a dream world.

the Red -32 pool days for May would say that we are not properly staffed for NB FO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EwrRocks (Post 3631622)

A strike is only leverage if it is actually able to happen. A major airline will never be allowed to strike, company knows that, union knows that and passengers know it. A Democratic administration just blocked a rail strike, who’s members were fighting for 3 more sick days.

A mediated contract, agreed to by United’s most direct competitor and approved by 75% of membership sealed United’s outcome through mediation or not. Delta 7.2 billion set the floor, and defined the rough area of total contract cost. United and American now need to how figure out how best they wish to get to 7.5 or 7.8 billion for them. I’m not saying it’s right, it’s not. Unions should never agree to anything less then that no matter how long it takes.

The RLA gives all the leverage to the companies. Every day past the amendable date the membership is giving up money and time that even with 100% retro they will never get back. Airline membership mentality also continues to keep what little leverage they may have with the company. The game is rigged for the companies and stacked against transportation unions. I hate this fact, it sucks.

I do think the company has some structural things that without a deal will really hamper them and their stock price over time. I don’t think dragging this out is in their best interest in the larger picture. Yet, they have witnessed real weakness and disfunction in our union, and are going to make us earn whatever agreement we get.

I choose to remain optimistic, and think a deal is sooner rather than later. Could I be wrong, absolutely. Optimism is never without setbacks, it is the belief in a positive outcome over time even with these obstacles along the way.

Your point on pattern bargaining is well taken, however even with DL setting the bar for this contract cycle, management from multiple major airlines continue to drag the process on. None of that negates the fact that mediation should have been filed much earlier, given how long the road to release can be. The rest is defeatist attitude which will get you nowhere! A Democratic administration blocked a rail strike, but the fact that they even entertained releasing them is remarkable. There are also many asymmetries comparing you with the rails. For one, I believe that if one rail union strikes, don't they all? The economic impact of a railroad strike pails in comparison to any single airline. Second, airlines experience meltdowns all the time, it hits the news and life goes on. The average pilot can survive an extended strike, the average passenger can book on another airline but I would not put money on any major airline surviving a strike for any extended period of time. You don't need to actually strike to increase your leverage, but you do need to get closer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaginCajun (Post 3631710)

You are living in a dream world.

Me, or Kirby? I said Kirby thinks we are staffed for this summer. Putin, I mean Kirby, has lots of generals(Zach “the weasel” Shapiro says LPA’s have lots of room to go up) telling him that all is good on the front line. I know this summer will be an unmitigated disaster. Good thing I don’t do domestic flying. Lots of people will pick up overtime which will soften the blow. I also remember your overt optimism about getting a good contract this spring… Tell me, who was living in a dream world again?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hedley (Post 3631363)

The reality is that we’re not going to, nor were we ever, going get all of the open items. There are obviously too many open items to get close to a TA, but both sides will end up giving a little in the end. Don’t know that Mediation will really accelerate things at this point since both sides are frequently meeting and slow progress is being made. For right now, being junior (not just reserve, but junior line holders also) at United with our current book discourages people from filling vacancies. That won’t change until the book changes. The company can either address that problem or delay aircraft deliveries and slow the planned United Next expansion. This MEC is focused on the right deal, not a quick “temporary fix”. It’s refreshing to see.

good news deliveries are behind schedule anyway

https://aviationweek.com/air-transpo...second-quarter

Quote:

Originally Posted by TFAYD (Post 3631931)

good news deliveries are behind schedule anyway

https://aviationweek.com/air-transpo...second-quarter

The upgrades to the cabins of existing planes is also delayed due to supply chain issues. Either way, it’s not like this grand vision was going to go as advertised…… it never does. So when are the A350’s that have been on the books for over a decade showing up again?🙄

Quote:

Originally Posted by EwrRocks (Post 3631622)

You may be right that we won't get released, but you don't need to be released for a strike vote to have an impact. There are already fear porn, click bait articles about how AA's strike vote will impact travelers and the vast majority aren't educated enough to know that strike votes doesn't mean a strike will happen anytime soon. That negative press hurts the company and it's no coincidence that Delta got a contract shortly after voting to be released. It's not a cure all solution, but it gives us more options and at least a little more leverage. So why aren't we taking it???

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/amer...210800790.html
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/b...Transportation.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/bus...274933171.html

We will continue to self fund our next contract due to the RLA affording the company's ability to delay. There will be no contract until it's financially beneficial for the company to sign or the NMB threatens to release us. I'd put my money on when it's beneficial for the company which is a wide ranging marker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueScholar (Post 3631980)

That negative press hurts the company and it's no coincidence that Delta got a contract shortly after voting to be released.

Delta got a contract so quick because their CEO opened his mouth and openly said they will not be released to strike and the mediator took exception to this statement. Had Delta not brought their best offer to the table they would have been released.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gollum (Post 3632136)

Delta still would not have been allowed to strike. The politics pretty much won't allow it to happen. And everyone in the food chain related to the Railway Labor act knows it. Too much at steak nationally for the transportation system and commerce. The public would crucify the politicians if their vacation plans were interrupted. They may have gotten to a 30-day cooling off period, but other solutions would have ben employed to keep labor working. Legislative or a PEB.

Also, as far as UAL goes, as long as some progress is being made at the bargaining table, no matter how small, the mediation board really won't consider a request. There has to be no progress being made for the mediation board to take the requests seriously. This is not pie in the sky wishful thinking for filing for mediation. The game is rigged against labor and this is how it is played. It really is all up to Kirby. We are years away from a strike--more likely only a 30-day cooling off period, probably 6 months minimum away from requests for mediation--then a year or more in mediation. If the wheels fall off during this summer and Kirby wants a solution, he knows what he must do. He thinks UAL is positioned fairly well for the summer flying, I don't think so much. Just do your jobs and everything will happen as it may.

in the mean time, we have to keep doing what we are doing and not resort to individual job actions or rhetoric. That will be used against the union in an injunction.

This sucks. But it is what it is. In the words of the Disney movie Robinsons, "we have to keep moving forward," but do so cautiously.