Implementation questions
09-03-2023 | 07:04 AM
#11
Line Holder
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8-D-6 Prior to utilizing Section 8-C-8 to assign an unfilled narrowbody fleet Captain vacancy to a New Hire, existing freezes will be lifted for Pilots bidding into those categories for that bid. When these existing freezes are lifted, Probationary Pilots will also be eligible to bid on such vacancies for that bid. In the event that the Company chooses not to lift existing freezes to fill unfilled narrowbody fleet Captain vacancies, those vacancies will be cancelled for that Category when the award is final.
but why does this provision exist at all if they were so confident that the QOL and reserve improvements will motivate people to upgrade?
09-03-2023 | 07:53 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2015
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From: Gear slinger
ALPA didn’t push hard enough for reserve rules and QOL increases and the company knows that ALPA left money on the table. ALPA is more confident than the company that vacancies will be filled.
09-03-2023 | 10:14 AM
#13
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exactly - and we are permanently giving up leverage. Don’t expect any more QOL improvements any time soon - if ever.
09-03-2023 | 12:31 PM
#15
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will also allow any fo down/lateral bids (ie 777 fo to 787 fo or 777 fo to 756 fo) to now bid 737/320 CA where as they would not have been able to before due to a bidding freeze.
09-03-2023 | 01:42 PM
#16
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8-D-1-d An Equipment training freeze shall not restrict a Pilot in a lower–numbered
Equipment/pay band from being awarded a vacancy in a higher-numbered Equipment/pay
band, pursuant to the bands described below:
1) 321/320/319FO, 737FO
2) 767/757FO
3) 777FO, 787FO, 350FO
4) 321/320/319CA, 737CA
5) 767/757CA
6) 777CA, 787CA, 350CA
09-03-2023 | 01:55 PM
#17
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Joined: Apr 2018
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Under the current UPA, any FO can always upgrade:
8-D-1-d An Equipment training freeze shall not restrict a Pilot in a lower–numbered
Equipment/pay band from being awarded a vacancy in a higher-numbered Equipment/pay
band, pursuant to the bands described below:
1) 321/320/319FO, 737FO
2) 767/757FO
3) 777FO, 787FO, 350FO
4) 321/320/319CA, 737CA
5) 767/757CA
6) 777CA, 787CA, 350CA
8-D-1-d An Equipment training freeze shall not restrict a Pilot in a lower–numbered
Equipment/pay band from being awarded a vacancy in a higher-numbered Equipment/pay
band, pursuant to the bands described below:
1) 321/320/319FO, 737FO
2) 767/757FO
3) 777FO, 787FO, 350FO
4) 321/320/319CA, 737CA
5) 767/757CA
6) 777CA, 787CA, 350CA
no they can’t always upgrade under the current contract.
take look at 8-D-2 which covers bidding freezes.
if you lateral bid (ie 737 fo to 320 fo or 787 fo to 777 fo ) or down bid you to are restricted from bidding on any vacancies except CA on your current aircraft for a period of 36 months (if no base change) or 24 months (with base change)
So under the current contract if you bid 777 FO to 787 FO you would be restricted from bidding anything other than 787 CA until your bidding freeze was up.
the new contract would require these freezes be removed to allow this pilot to bud 737 CA before a new hire could be offered a narrow body CA spot.
Last edited by 744ButtonPusher; 09-03-2023 at 02:20 PM.
09-03-2023 | 02:47 PM
#18
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Joined: Mar 2018
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It’s already been explained above about who can bid, but lifting people’s freezes in my opinion won’t move the needle much. Given the environment for the last few years, those people will have likely had the opportunity anyway.
09-03-2023 | 03:08 PM
#19
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_IF_ the new contract makes captain more desirable, lifting the freeze could shake a few more people out of the trees.
09-04-2023 | 11:47 AM
#20
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Under the current UPA, any FO can always upgrade:
8-D-1-d An Equipment training freeze shall not restrict a Pilot in a lower–numbered
Equipment/pay band from being awarded a vacancy in a higher-numbered Equipment/pay
band, pursuant to the bands described below:
1) 321/320/319FO, 737FO
2) 767/757FO
3) 777FO, 787FO, 350FO
4) 321/320/319CA, 737CA
5) 767/757CA
6) 777CA, 787CA, 350CA
8-D-1-d An Equipment training freeze shall not restrict a Pilot in a lower–numbered
Equipment/pay band from being awarded a vacancy in a higher-numbered Equipment/pay
band, pursuant to the bands described below:
1) 321/320/319FO, 737FO
2) 767/757FO
3) 777FO, 787FO, 350FO
4) 321/320/319CA, 737CA
5) 767/757CA
6) 777CA, 787CA, 350CA
Not on probation they can't or without 500 hrs current book. 8-D-6 will allow anyone the opportunity to take the upgrade before one who may have been hired into another fleet 756,777,787 or not gotten the bid in indoc. Before a new hire can get it as part of the accelerate upgrade program. 2500 probation pilots who don't have the opportunity today to bid it would get the choice before any one is forced.
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