Ten characters

 

I’m personally going to bypass the discussion with my wife and ask the 20 quid/hour LHR van driver what he thinks on Monday on way to hotel about our TA… wonder what he will recommend?

 

To be clear, in your example, these are Captain upgrades that were offered to every incumbent pilot on the United pilot seniority list but for whatever reason went unfilled.

The TA under consideration with a reported $10B in cumulative gains, and your presumption is that there will still be insufficient bidders?

I want to be open minded to your argument, but this simply doesn’t track.

What is your solution & why are you willing to tank solid gains for pilots on the list today for an unlikely staffing solution that involves pilots that may not have even started flying lessons?

I have to assume the Feds, CASC, and yes even United management understand the risk and will respond appropriately should that clause be activated.

 

I haven't been on here in quite some time.... And I'm realizing why 😂.
I'd strongly suggest that everyone, but especially the NO votes, to watch the YouTube videos the MEC put out yesterday.
They go into great depth about a lot of the "concerns" mentioned in this thread. The improvements outweigh the minor gives we lost. Which honestly, I can't really think of any that give me heartburn. That said.. I voted YES.

 

If you are one of the almost 2000 fellows on probation, you can't vote this time... but you'll be eligible to vote on the next contract in 4-7 years. Not to worry, we got this. $$$

 

Someone get Kirby off the forum! Or is this Todd? Same thing…

SK would LOVE nothing more than for us to shoot this down, put us on ice, and continue to save $5m/day for several more years. They’ll push back and gleefully wait for the NMB to engage, in 18-24 months. Then they’ll snatch back all kinds of things to “industry standard.”

 

Don’t fool yourself. SK got exactly what he wanted out of this- he no longer has to appeal to pilots to staff his growth plans. Yes he’s loved saving cash through negotiations, but he also hasn’t really needed the upgrades yet. That would have become a growing problem to him over time & he knew it.

You may say he paid us enough to justify making this concession- which is fine, but he’ll gladly sign those retro checks when the time comes.

 

I agree with what you're saying in this statement, but you have to remove this statement from the proverbial vacuum from whence it came.

There are a number of problems with DLs contract that are fine with me and a large number of United pilots, but are untenable to a large voting group here at United.

1) WB FOs will not give up their landing's classes. I've never been a WB FO, so this didn't bother me from the TUMI, but it did bother a lot of lifetime WB FOs. Overwhelmingly, that was a big no-no for United FOs. They want to be able to go to DEN and do a quick landings class for 1-2 days of pay, and now training pay will eventually go up to 5hrs per day. DL WB FOs share and give landings to each other and don't bid for the "bunkie/IRO" slot. This is something our NC had to "work around" as this would be considered a huge concession at UAL. I would fathom DL guys wanted this too, but not enough interest in order to give up negotiating capital elsewhere (kinda like most pilots and DLs sick policy)

2) Senior FOs do not want to go to a DL green slip type system. IMO, this is the number 1 reason we don't have pilots bidding CA here at United.
At United a senior FO with sweet senior FO type trips has the ability to drop all trips, or some trips, then cherry pick premium pay trips and get paid potentially double for the same trips that pop up. Jr guys with crappy trips don't have this option. This goes for both NB and WB pairings. At DL, if a senior FO drops all his trips, they won't get paid the premium until they rise above 75 hrs. So there's no point in dropping down that far at DL. I'm guessing they may drop down 1 trip at a time. Also, the DL green slip system gives the junior FOs a "bite at the apple" before a senior guy gets bite 2-5. At United, premium trips are a feeding frenzy for the super senior, mostly because the senior have good enough trips to drop all of them. Sure, at United a junior guy can get a premium now and then, but a senior can basically get his proverbial "pick of the litter". United senior FOs enjoy their seniority and this is a provision our NC had to "work around" as doing the DL green slip system is fair for the majority, but unfair to those "trough"'er senior FOs.

3) At United, we told our negotiators they could not give these FO items up. Heck we have guys voting no because they can't get over 95 hrs with a sick call. I don't know about you, but going +95 hrs is an anomaly for me, and I know there are "money wh0re$" who will complain about this and I don't like it, but the vast majority of pilots complained the reason they want an additional sick leave was because they wanted a "bridge to LTD". Well, we got our bridge, and that bridge comes with it's cost. The cost was a 15 hr penalty to dip into the bridge, but gives even new hires the ability to use that bridge if needed. The 15 hr penalty and 95 hr cap are basically backstops that the company put in because we have pilots that abuse the system. I would have preferred to not have these backstops, but our pilot history required them for the company to sign off. If you don't abuse sick leave or LTD, you won't have a problem with those backstops, because 99% of pilots won't be affected by them, or the tradeoff is a good exchange.

3) We have to fill CA spots. The items above make senior FO too good and the polling showed we "Can not" get rid of them... so how do we fill CA spots? Well, we improved or incentivized reserve on this contract so hopefully we get local RSV to pick up reserve. We could pay CAs more money too, but then you **** off the majority voting FOs. I'm guessing that's what we asked for or told the company they had to do to make CAs upgrade. If it was a few $$s, I bet the company probably would have signed off on it. However, there was no guarantee and you don't see DL/AA/SWA with the number of unfilleds we have. So the company wanted a guarantee. I don't like it; most don't like it. We all want the United Next plan, but in an industry with razor thin margins, and ALPA unwilling to "deincentivize" senior FO spots, how do you do this? It's impossible. So the company and ALPA decided we will try and incentivize the pilots from other companies to make United the place to come if you want quick upgrade and not take a pay cut. If guys don't upgrade, this provision sucks for those that wouldn't normally bid it, but I imagine this will entice commuters from DL/AA/SWA to come here and not take a pay cut.

I'm from North Carolina. If AA was having trouble filling CA spots in CLT, I could be enticed to leave UAL and go to AA if I could bid CA within a year. I probably wouldn't since I've been here almost 15 years, but it makes me think about it, that's for sure.