Thats not quite correct. Read 8-D-1-e-(1).

Mil guys also don’t necessarily need 1000 hours, but 500 in the case of people who have flown transport category aircraft.

 

Since you appear to be trolling, Let me indulge you. Looks like from your post history you got hired at AA around Nov 2019 after flying in the regional for at least 4 years.

Are you so insecure in you flying abilities after at least 8 years in 121 ops, including 4 at a legacy and 4 at a commuter, that you are quaking in your boots if you put in an app for UAL? My advice is, stay where you are.

Do you feel the demonstrably inadequate AA contract is so bad that you are looking to jump ship? Advice, stay where you are. AA may raise the bar eventually, no point giving up 5 years seniority.

I hope this helps.

 

I expect the company will start segregating classes into CA eligible and not. The CA eligible classes will only get offered captain slots.

 

Remember that our recent history that had all the unfilled Captain Vacancies also had restrictions on when you could bid for Captain. Most importantly that you had completed probation.

With the new contract any new Captain vacancy would have to go through the current seniority list including all pilots with a "freeze" and those still on probation before it could every be offered/forced upon new hires. So, the next vacancy bid (even with a possibility of December training) will be the first time that those new eligibility criteria will be used. That coupled with the other changes to the contract, will either be enough or they won't. All of us can have opinions on how it will effect the bidding of pilots, but the reality of how this influences an individual will be what determines whether this "forced Captain" option ever happens.

With all the new airplanes we have coming it is certainly a possibility, but just the change to make pilots on probation eligible creates over 2000 new eligible bidders, so I am guessing (see opinion reference above) it will be several vacancy bids before we get back to unfilled Captain assignments.

 

Sorry I’m a little uneducated on contracts, but force upgrades as in the regionals when you reach 1000hr of 121 they just put you in an upgrade class and you don’t get a say in it? Or is it different?
again I apologize if it’s an uneducated question

 

No. This is different. Someone may be “forced” because they’re bottom b***ch in newhire class. Exactly the same as some of the more junior new hires have been forced to the right seats of the 777 and 787 right away. See my response below to another poster:

In addition, to the above the new hire in the left seat will still need to fly as an FO for 350 hours in the type of aircraft they will be a captain on. They will also need a mandatory 100 hours of IOE.

Also, their captain spot isn’t guaranteed until they start training. That captain position will still be available to more senior pilots up until the point that new hire starts upgrade training. So, just simply getting (or being forced) the award in indoc doesn’t mean that it can’t be pulled out from under you leading up to your upgrade training.

In the end I think we’re going to see very few people ultimately being forced into upgrade training.

 

because you have to already meet 121 captain requirements in order to be awarded a captain vacancy (voluntary or otherwise) . So a military pilot who has never flown 121 (at least 500 hrs worth maybe more depending on what they flew in the military ) would not meet the requirements and Therefore not eligible to be forced into a captain slot.

also, while the freezes start on award date , these captain slots will have an imputed award date that will be adjusted based on when they meet the requirements to train.

 

Man, they twisted the contract into a pretzel to force the ability to upgrade new hires. There's no way they don't use that clause after jamming it in that way.

The thing is, if they're going to force new hires into the left seat, the lack of 1,000 hrs SIC won't stop them. 121.436(a)(3) talks about the required 1,000hrs SIC, but 121.435(a)(2) talks about an "appropriate type rating for the aircraft being flown". Not many new hires have a B737 or A320 type. If they're going to overlook the type requirements, they're going to also overlook the 1,000hrs SIC because they own the pilot for 24-25 months even after they upgrade.

Someone mentioned captain new hire classes. I think United is going to do that, have a Captain class start on Monday and a FO class start on Tuesday like some cargo companies do for WB/NB.

 

the type rating requirement is interesting given that is a a specific requirement under 121 and I would be interested to see if NOT having it would stand up in a grievance.

As far as the 1000 hrs .., no chance they side step that one.

 

I feel this argument is really grasping at straws. The new hire will gain the required type rating when they go through training. It’s no different than a 737 FO under the old contract upgrading to the 320. They have the 1000 SIC, but don’t have the type rating when awarded. That comes during upgrade training.

Regionals have been hiring direct entry captains for years. Many hires don’t necessarily have the type rating for the RJ they were hired to be captain on - it comes during training. Even hiring regional FOs these days don’t need a full 1500 hours or the whole whopping 50 hours of multi-time. They can use the time in the sim in training to bridge a small gap in flight time provided they have the necessary time by the time they take their Checkride for their ATP.