Forced Upgrade for New Hires ?
10-01-2023 | 03:01 AM
#21
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The issue is the contractual provision 8-c-8-b. It says “pilots who do not meet the requirements of FAR part 121.436 will not be eligible to be awarded or assigned captain vacancies.” That isn’t must meet the requirements of 121.436 before serving as pilot in command. Awarded or assigned a vacancy. That seems pretty limiting to me.
10-01-2023 | 03:25 AM
#22
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Yes any 121 company can hire anyone for anything. Kalitta can hire a newborn into a 747ca job and pay them min guarantee for 23 years and until they release a parking brake the FAA doesn’t care.
The issue is the contractual provision 8-c-8-b. It says “pilots who do not meet the requirements of FAR part 121.436 will not be eligible to be awarded or assigned captain vacancies.” That isn’t must meet the requirements of 121.436 before serving as pilot in command. Awarded or assigned a vacancy. That seems pretty limiting to me.
The issue is the contractual provision 8-c-8-b. It says “pilots who do not meet the requirements of FAR part 121.436 will not be eligible to be awarded or assigned captain vacancies.” That isn’t must meet the requirements of 121.436 before serving as pilot in command. Awarded or assigned a vacancy. That seems pretty limiting to me.
10-01-2023 | 05:19 AM
#23
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10-01-2023 | 07:37 AM
#24
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To act as PIC. The award will not require it just as it ever was or we would never be able to switch to aircraft we have never flown. And yes, I know what the contract says. Just like you know they are referring to subpart 3.
10-01-2023 | 07:49 AM
#25
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From: 767/757 CA
exactly… lots of misinformation being spewed.
10-01-2023 | 08:14 AM
#26
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From: Student pilot
No. This is different. Someone may be “forced” because they’re bottom b***ch in newhire class. Exactly the same as some of the more junior new hires have been forced to the right seats of the 777 and 787 right away. See my response below to another poster:
In addition, to the above the new hire in the left seat will still need to fly as an FO for 350 hours in the type of aircraft they will be a captain on. They will also need a mandatory 100 hours of IOE.
Also, their captain spot isn’t guaranteed until they start training. That captain position will still be available to more senior pilots up until the point that new hire starts upgrade training. So, just simply getting (or being forced) the award in indoc doesn’t mean that it can’t be pulled out from under you leading up to your upgrade training.
In the end I think we’re going to see very few people ultimately being forced into upgrade training.
In addition, to the above the new hire in the left seat will still need to fly as an FO for 350 hours in the type of aircraft they will be a captain on. They will also need a mandatory 100 hours of IOE.
Also, their captain spot isn’t guaranteed until they start training. That captain position will still be available to more senior pilots up until the point that new hire starts upgrade training. So, just simply getting (or being forced) the award in indoc doesn’t mean that it can’t be pulled out from under you leading up to your upgrade training.
In the end I think we’re going to see very few people ultimately being forced into upgrade training.
10-01-2023 | 08:51 AM
#27
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Why did the members agree to such un-fair welcoming treatment to the newest members of their group ?
Can someone familiar with this matter share some more info on what's going on and what a potential New Hire would be looking at having to go trough this scenario ?
Thank you
10-01-2023 | 10:01 AM
#28
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From: guppy CA
This forced upgrade for newhires can be fixed, but I doubt many here would like the fixes. Just to name two ways to fix it:
United is losing CAs. How to retain CAs? Increase the age to 67. Those of you are in adamant opposition to NHs being assigned unfilled CA slots should be out there vigorously supporting age 67.
United has too many career WB FOs. Force those that go NQ for landings into the first available landings class or be placed on unpaid status. There are some bunkies that have avoiding landing class down to a science.
Getting those WB FOs requaled quickly will reduce the number WB FOs needed and will make the job less desirable for some, pushing at least a few to take NB CA vacancies.
United is losing CAs. How to retain CAs? Increase the age to 67. Those of you are in adamant opposition to NHs being assigned unfilled CA slots should be out there vigorously supporting age 67.
United has too many career WB FOs. Force those that go NQ for landings into the first available landings class or be placed on unpaid status. There are some bunkies that have avoiding landing class down to a science.
Getting those WB FOs requaled quickly will reduce the number WB FOs needed and will make the job less desirable for some, pushing at least a few to take NB CA vacancies.
10-01-2023 | 11:15 AM
#29
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They could also fix the "forced" portion of the equation by inserting a question on the application like, "Are you interested in being a street captain"? They could then meet out whatever quantity of NH captains for the companies needs due to one's volunteer status.
Problem solved, and no current pilot on the seniority list is "harmed", assuming there are enough YES applicants.
I see advertising on APC saying, "Now hiring street captains" I guess it's a recruiting ploy in some circles. Go figure
This is what I would do in conjunction with a varied assortment of ages in the NH class to prevent a "retirement bubble" down the road with sufficient apps.
Problem solved, and no current pilot on the seniority list is "harmed", assuming there are enough YES applicants.
I see advertising on APC saying, "Now hiring street captains" I guess it's a recruiting ploy in some circles. Go figure
This is what I would do in conjunction with a varied assortment of ages in the NH class to prevent a "retirement bubble" down the road with sufficient apps.
Last edited by Race Bannon; 10-01-2023 at 11:38 AM.
10-01-2023 | 12:31 PM
#30
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8-c-8 covers new hire assignments. Not relevant to how previous captain vacancies were awarded
8-c-8-b is all new language and it says “awarded”
I agree the provision is narrow to the point of uselessness if it only captures type-rated hires. But that’s what it says.
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