WWYD... DAL or UAL
02-09-2024, 12:41 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired 121 pilot
Posts: 1,032
Originally Posted by fiftyfourtyten
Hey everybody,
02-09-2024, 01:30 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,427
Originally Posted by fireman0174
An added point. Although not something you'd want to plan on, IAD at UAL gives you an option worth something in your back pocket living in SE PA.
02-09-2024, 01:31 PM
#13
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2022
Position: A220 FO
Posts: 28
I live in east PA about 1 hour 10/20 from EWR
I chose United, even though I wanted delta initially United made much more sense for me.
one of the reasons was the drive to JFK and the tolls adding up! I can get the EWR in a decent time and pay zero tolls on the way there, just a 2$ on the way back!
but whatever works for you, you still got lots of time and the move won’t hurt nearly as bad if you decide to change in a year or two
do what is going to make your life better!
I chose United, even though I wanted delta initially United made much more sense for me.
one of the reasons was the drive to JFK and the tolls adding up! I can get the EWR in a decent time and pay zero tolls on the way there, just a 2$ on the way back!
but whatever works for you, you still got lots of time and the move won’t hurt nearly as bad if you decide to change in a year or two
do what is going to make your life better!
02-09-2024, 01:38 PM
#14
off weekends (if Reserve)
Joined APC: May 2023
Posts: 289
Originally Posted by fiftyfourtyten
Is there anything else I should be considering?
Granted PHL is not the Flagship International Widebody station for AAL the way JFK is for DELTA and AAL and EWR is for United (along with SFO)
6 months is NUUUUUUUUUU-thhiiiiing. For someone in your 20's ...I'd even say 2 years of seniority and youd still suffer very little if any penalty.
I'd say go to UAL. Of UAL EWR people that dont commute, I'd say 85% live in the Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton metro.....I dont know if thats considered SE Pennsylvannia...
02-09-2024, 01:45 PM
#15
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Joined APC: Jan 2024
Posts: 140
Couple things for context here.
1) You will be halfway through your career in 2045 ... when the youngest baby boomer is 81
2) The 747 had a 54 year production run. If the 787 matches that, it will exit production before you retire.
3) You have 42 years ahead of you. 42 years ago, 707's were still in service with the majors.
All the "delta this, united that" stuff is speculative for the 2020's. For the 2030's and 2040's and 2050's and 2060's where you will spend the bulk of your career - NOBODY HAS A CLUE
So do whatever ... but don't think you have any idea what's the right choice.
I'm in the just move close to JFK camp, but if you are convinced you want to die in eastern PA, it's not at all unreasonable to switch after a few months at Delta.
1) You will be halfway through your career in 2045 ... when the youngest baby boomer is 81
2) The 747 had a 54 year production run. If the 787 matches that, it will exit production before you retire.
3) You have 42 years ahead of you. 42 years ago, 707's were still in service with the majors.
All the "delta this, united that" stuff is speculative for the 2020's. For the 2030's and 2040's and 2050's and 2060's where you will spend the bulk of your career - NOBODY HAS A CLUE
So do whatever ... but don't think you have any idea what's the right choice.
I'm in the just move close to JFK camp, but if you are convinced you want to die in eastern PA, it's not at all unreasonable to switch after a few months at Delta.
02-10-2024, 03:50 PM
#16
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Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
Originally Posted by fiftyfourtyten
Hey everybody,
Is there anything else I should be considering? I'm open to any and all advice/opinions. I have been mulling over this for months and I'm finally at the point where I have to make a firm decision in the next few days. I'm being very careful to avoid a "grass is always greener" mentality. Any help is greatly appreciated!
Is there anything else I should be considering? I'm open to any and all advice/opinions. I have been mulling over this for months and I'm finally at the point where I have to make a firm decision in the next few days. I'm being very careful to avoid a "grass is always greener" mentality. Any help is greatly appreciated!
You are 23 and the world is not viewed by today, this week, month or even this year. Bases, airplanes, layovers, food, drink, family, relationships and the world will all change in your years of career availability, so what should you look at?
1st - it is highly likely, but not guarenteed, that UAL and DAL will still be around for at least the next 10 years. Conclusion; either is a good choice.
2nd - Seniority over the next decade or so is EVERYTHING!!! Let me write it again but a bit LOUDER, SENORITY IS EVERYTHING!!!!!!
While you may think where you are based or what airplane you fly over the next few years is important, and it is somewhat, it matters more 20 or 30 years from now. Only the airline where you have the greatest senority (and is still in business) is the best place to be.
In my day it was normally the 1st (and only) airline to offer a job, however these days you have a choice. With that choice there is really only one major thing to consider, WHERE WILL I BE THE MOST SENIOR, and WHAT WILL THAT SENIORITY BUY ME at minimum 10 years from now.
Since you have a choice start this way, compare the two senority lists, where you will place today, then considering a 65 year old retirement with zero growth of flying, where will I be in 20 years on that list.
Right now it's good to be you. Enjoy a very rare time in the industry.
02-10-2024, 05:01 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Posts: 986
Originally Posted by Regularguy
I'm retired after 42 years at UAL (furlough and strike incuded) and you frankly have it completely wrong. Why? You ask!
You are 23 and the world is not viewed by today, this week, month or even this year. Bases, airplanes, layovers, food, drink, family, relationships and the world will all change in your years of career availability, so what should you look at?
1st - it is highly likely, but not guarenteed, that UAL and DAL will still be around for at least the next 10 years. Conclusion; either is a good choice.
2nd - Seniority over the next decade or so is EVERYTHING!!! Let me write it again but a bit LOUDER, SENORITY IS EVERYTHING!!!!!!
While you may think where you are based or what airplane you fly over the next few years is important, and it is somewhat, it matters more 20 or 30 years from now. Only the airline where you have the greatest senority (and is still in business) is the best place to be.
In my day it was normally the 1st (and only) airline to offer a job, however these days you have a choice. With that choice there is really only one major thing to consider, WHERE WILL I BE THE MOST SENIOR, and WHAT WILL THAT SENIORITY BUY ME at minimum 10 years from now.
Since you have a choice start this way, compare the two senority lists, where you will place today, then considering a 65 year old retirement with zero growth of flying, where will I be in 20 years on that list.
Right now it's good to be you. Enjoy a very rare time in the industry.
You are 23 and the world is not viewed by today, this week, month or even this year. Bases, airplanes, layovers, food, drink, family, relationships and the world will all change in your years of career availability, so what should you look at?
1st - it is highly likely, but not guarenteed, that UAL and DAL will still be around for at least the next 10 years. Conclusion; either is a good choice.
2nd - Seniority over the next decade or so is EVERYTHING!!! Let me write it again but a bit LOUDER, SENORITY IS EVERYTHING!!!!!!
While you may think where you are based or what airplane you fly over the next few years is important, and it is somewhat, it matters more 20 or 30 years from now. Only the airline where you have the greatest senority (and is still in business) is the best place to be.
In my day it was normally the 1st (and only) airline to offer a job, however these days you have a choice. With that choice there is really only one major thing to consider, WHERE WILL I BE THE MOST SENIOR, and WHAT WILL THAT SENIORITY BUY ME at minimum 10 years from now.
Since you have a choice start this way, compare the two senority lists, where you will place today, then considering a 65 year old retirement with zero growth of flying, where will I be in 20 years on that list.
Right now it's good to be you. Enjoy a very rare time in the industry.
giving up seniority will follow you for the rest of your life. Make sure it is worth it.
also remember in March of 2020 some people left work at one airline on a Friday to start at United on Monday. United canceled the class over the weekend. What is your plan for that?
02-10-2024, 05:31 PM
#18
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Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 919
Originally Posted by PNWFlyer
also remember in March of 2020 some people left work at one airline on a Friday to start at United on Monday. United canceled the class over the weekend. What is your plan for that?
All that means is all you can do is take all the info you can find and make the best decision on what works for you and what looks best for you in the long run. Know that the situation will undoubtedly change multiple times, so hope for the best but plan for the worst.
The good news is that you definitely have first world problems
02-10-2024, 06:19 PM
#19
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,213
EWR. Imagine driving by EWR, with :45 minutes to 1:30 ahead of you, for the next 41+ years. Think of it this way - when you retire from Delta you'll have driven by EWR for 42 years....but if you choose to go to Delta you'll only have avoided the drive for 41.5 years. That six month loss isn't worth it...stick to Delta and suck it up! I'm absolutetly kidding - the difference in the drive, crossing the Hudson sucks, is much greater then the 'loss' of 1,000 numbers.
02-10-2024, 07:09 PM
#20
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2023
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by fiftyfourtyten
Hey everybody,
I know there have been other threads on this topic, but I wanted to get some separate opinions on this situation. I'll also preface this post by saying that I am extremely grateful for the oppurtunity that I have with both companies and I'm simply trying to make the best decision between the two.
I'm currenty at Delta (hired in mid 2023). I live about 1hr 20m from EWR and anywhere between 2-3 hours from JFK/LGA (depending on traffic). Despite living in SE Pennsylvania, Delta was always my top choice airline. However, once I started working here and making the drive to NYC last fall, I realized that it might not have been the best choice for me. At my regional airline, I was making a 30 minute drive to the airport with barely any traffic and $0 in tolls. At Delta, my drive to JFK/LGA has been anywhere between 2-3 hours with signifcant traffic and about $300-400/month in tolls. I may have spoiled myself at my regional, but it definitely taught me the value of living close to base. Needless to say, driving past EWR every time I go to JFK/LGA had me thinking that my QOL could be a whole lot better at United since the drive to EWR is about half the time and half the cost in tolls with very little traffic.
Fast forward to today- I currently have a CJO with United and a class date scheduled for the first week of March. I've spent countless hours over the past 6 months trying to make a decision whether to stay at Delta or make the move over to United. I am not necessarily tied down to SE Pennsylvania (currently 23, no wife, kids, etc.) but would prefer to stay around here if possible. I've considered other base options with Delta (namely Atlanta and SLC) but it feels a little crazy to purposely move away from the NYC area with the seniority boost here.
Here are some of my other factors I've considered:
Delta
- Already employed with 6+ months of seniority (about 1k from the bottom on the list)
- Flexibility to commute in the future with better reserve rules
- Better premium pay oppurtunities
- Better profit sharing
- Better bases if I end up living somewhere besides the NE (personal opinion)
United
- Easier drive to EWR compared to JFK/LGA
- Significantly more widebody flying and better route network than Delta
- Better seniority progression (assuming growth plans materialize)
- Better technology for employees (employeeRes, Crew Companion, etc.) (Delta tech is painfully bad)
- Quicker ability to upgrade on NB for hold WBFO
Is there anything else I should be considering? I'm open to any and all advice/opinions. I have been mulling over this for months and I'm finally at the point where I have to make a firm decision in the next few days. I'm being very careful to avoid a "grass is always greener" mentality. Any help is greatly appreciated!
I know there have been other threads on this topic, but I wanted to get some separate opinions on this situation. I'll also preface this post by saying that I am extremely grateful for the oppurtunity that I have with both companies and I'm simply trying to make the best decision between the two.
I'm currenty at Delta (hired in mid 2023). I live about 1hr 20m from EWR and anywhere between 2-3 hours from JFK/LGA (depending on traffic). Despite living in SE Pennsylvania, Delta was always my top choice airline. However, once I started working here and making the drive to NYC last fall, I realized that it might not have been the best choice for me. At my regional airline, I was making a 30 minute drive to the airport with barely any traffic and $0 in tolls. At Delta, my drive to JFK/LGA has been anywhere between 2-3 hours with signifcant traffic and about $300-400/month in tolls. I may have spoiled myself at my regional, but it definitely taught me the value of living close to base. Needless to say, driving past EWR every time I go to JFK/LGA had me thinking that my QOL could be a whole lot better at United since the drive to EWR is about half the time and half the cost in tolls with very little traffic.
Fast forward to today- I currently have a CJO with United and a class date scheduled for the first week of March. I've spent countless hours over the past 6 months trying to make a decision whether to stay at Delta or make the move over to United. I am not necessarily tied down to SE Pennsylvania (currently 23, no wife, kids, etc.) but would prefer to stay around here if possible. I've considered other base options with Delta (namely Atlanta and SLC) but it feels a little crazy to purposely move away from the NYC area with the seniority boost here.
Here are some of my other factors I've considered:
Delta
- Already employed with 6+ months of seniority (about 1k from the bottom on the list)
- Flexibility to commute in the future with better reserve rules
- Better premium pay oppurtunities
- Better profit sharing
- Better bases if I end up living somewhere besides the NE (personal opinion)
United
- Easier drive to EWR compared to JFK/LGA
- Significantly more widebody flying and better route network than Delta
- Better seniority progression (assuming growth plans materialize)
- Better technology for employees (employeeRes, Crew Companion, etc.) (Delta tech is painfully bad)
- Quicker ability to upgrade on NB for hold WBFO
Is there anything else I should be considering? I'm open to any and all advice/opinions. I have been mulling over this for months and I'm finally at the point where I have to make a firm decision in the next few days. I'm being very careful to avoid a "grass is always greener" mentality. Any help is greatly appreciated!
at our age seniority progression with this retirement stuff is negligible (you’ll have WB Capt plenty of time at each), so biggest factor is base (which you have that issue but if I were you I’d move to stay at DL, you’ll see why).
I kno ppl say “10, 20, 30 yr from now” but right here right now and as far back as “is relevant” to modern operations: Delta is the industry leader in easily every factor other than network (which changes constantly/WB flying is limited by fleet & base anyways not like you’ll fly every route at each company) And I made my decision on: 1) which company should I hedge everything on for giving me the most for my time (how little can you work/how much can you make) clear winner is DL in $ and QOL assuming in base both. Just from going thru both, I’ve had 5+ UA guys during training tell me go DL if they had the choice, that their DL colleagues always made more/worked less if they desired (also no pride among TK or pilot group I noticed at UA albeit was there during contract negotiations). Not one word of that at DL saying go UA.
Big factor to, you already have good seniority at DL and are in your groove, don’t reset that for UA to go thru training again and rly RESETING you seniority for this “relative seniority gain” that can fall thru for any reason in the next couple years, it’s irrelevant in early 20’s.
You really have to hate driving/not wanna move to make this jump to UA, you’re leaving (what many ppl will obiv argue) is the premier airline of the U.S. for customers and the pilot group/PWA itself and you’re already here. Don’t reset that for #2 cuz of a small drive that u can change. UA is behind DL $/operationally for years to come, Kirby cross dresses, DEI, more planes = more debt, “UA Next” is such nonsense, I never felt any pride being there. I’ll take the heat, but this is the truth, stay at DL and enjoy the ride man.. Yes I’m a kool aid drinker at DL, but there’s a reason it taste better to so many more ppl over here.. you made it man hit the brakes and rake in your cash. More likely than not you’ll regret jumping ship, believe it or not choosing between staying at UA and starting again at DL was tough, but glad to not be going back to MLK Boulevard in nasty DEN for the rest of my life
Please consider moving my guy
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