Leave DL for UA?
10-23-2024 | 06:36 PM
#51
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ATL flying is miserable too.. DAL upgrades are going to go to 15 years in a couple years also. Way more growth at United. Just figure where you want to live and don’t commute though, that will be the biggest for QOL
Not sure the relationship United management has with its pilots but that should also be something to consider. The long term trajectory of each company. I think in 5 years UAL is going to be eating Delta’s lunch since Delta can’t invest past a 5 year plan. That’s the reason the Narita hub went away.. Japanese customers don’t want to fly a clapped out 767, JAL and ANA got a fleet with airplanes from this century.
being 26, you can go start a whole new life. Fortune favors the bold. That’s just my .02
Last edited by 170Till5; 10-23-2024 at 06:49 PM.
10-23-2024 | 09:06 PM
#52
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Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 24
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DAL management cutting buddy passes, kicking employees out of the sky club… I think DAL management is going to get more and more hostile and take more away from employees. I’m sure eventually they won’t let us non-rev in business class..Zed benefits are superior at UAL.
ATL flying is miserable too.. DAL upgrades are going to go to 15 years in a couple years also. Way more growth at United. Just figure where you want to live and don’t commute though, that will be the biggest for QOL
Not sure the relationship United management has with its pilots but that should also be something to consider. The long term trajectory of each company. I think in 5 years UAL is going to be eating Delta’s lunch since Delta can’t invest past a 5 year plan. That’s the reason the Narita hub went away.. Japanese customers don’t want to fly a clapped out 767, JAL and ANA got a fleet with airplanes from this century.
being 26, you can go start a whole new life. Fortune favors the bold. That’s just my .02
ATL flying is miserable too.. DAL upgrades are going to go to 15 years in a couple years also. Way more growth at United. Just figure where you want to live and don’t commute though, that will be the biggest for QOL
Not sure the relationship United management has with its pilots but that should also be something to consider. The long term trajectory of each company. I think in 5 years UAL is going to be eating Delta’s lunch since Delta can’t invest past a 5 year plan. That’s the reason the Narita hub went away.. Japanese customers don’t want to fly a clapped out 767, JAL and ANA got a fleet with airplanes from this century.
being 26, you can go start a whole new life. Fortune favors the bold. That’s just my .02
ZED? Honestly, couldn’t care for much. Skyclub would be nice, and I beat of my knowledge it’s their intent to bring it back to employers once volume is handled (aka more clubs/spread the volume).
Regarding UA mgmt w/ pilots I’m sure it’s just fine; but one thing I did have concern over was UA’s forced VAX jab and how many IAH guys got laid off for it & are actively attempting a class action lawsuit, I just appreciate DL giving ppl the choice (I wasn’t here for it, tho I heard no DL pilot got laid off).
I do like UA’s exiting and fun/ambitious growth plans, but many ppl on this thread said to not put much stake in these 5-10 year promises to swap your career on? For example don’t they still have 45 A350 WB’s they’re waiting on? Boom jet by 26’? I like the promises, but p have tempered my belief In them a little, DL’s quiet/conservative growth plans seem more viable, and I’m sure they’re more plans to come little by little every couple years compared to UA’s “all at once” plan.
Lastly, I don’t think anyone’s 767’s are lasting much longer, hence the 330’s and 350’s on the way. And, I personally don’t see 15 yr upgrades a reality, doesn’t make since with retirements + growth at all. If anything wouldn’t upgrades times remain within 4-6 year realm? Right now; I’m looking at 320, 220, 73N, or 717A when I’m 28-29 or 350/330B when I’m 27-28.
Thank you again for the input, pos motive or neg, its all worth hearing!!
10-23-2024 | 11:10 PM
#53
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Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 414
Likes: 8
am in a similar spot to OP. I've been with SWA for 1.5 years and have a CJO with UAL. With 1400 pilots beneath me at SWA (although hiring is currently frozen due to MAX issues), I'm in a relatively good position, especially considering my seniority and 58% in base seniority in LAX, living and driving from north county SAN.
Despite this, I'm torn about making the move. I've already postponed two class dates with UAL this year due to uncertainty. If I do decide to join UAL, I'd need to start class by January. Initially, I was attracted to UAL for the possibility of wide-body (WB) flying, but I've previously disregarded it as I like to stay on my own time zone and I value flexibility and QOL.
While UAL offers the opportunity to fly WB international and sit on reserve, I'm unsure if it's worth leaving SWA. Our contract and setup for 737 flying seem superior, and I enjoy the flexibility, vacations, premium pay, and ease of schedule changes at SWA. Although we're facing issues with Elliott and uncertainty about the future, I don't feel my job is threatened. I think SWA is just going through a realignemnt phase in their business model. We don't have the premium cabins that UAL and DAL have been benefitting from in the post-covid travel boom.
Seniority-wise, SWA will likely remain stagnant for the next 2-3 years, depending on when we get planes from Boeing. Our retirement wave is further in the future, and assuming 0% growth, it's looking like a 9-10 year upgrade. I'm 30 and currently on year 2 pay at SWA, with a year 3 raise in May '25.
I'm rethinking UAL because of the variety but I'm unsure if it's worth jumping ship. Comparing apples to apples (737 to 737), SWA seems to have the better contract. UAL's retirements and growth plans are exciting, but I don't want to miss out on a potentially better opportunity. Is variety something really improtant to consider, or is an airplane an airplane at the end of the day?
What I value the most is schedule flexibility, and the ability to make great money for the most time off. Trying to collect information to make an informed decision! I know the grass isn't always greener. Thanks.
Despite this, I'm torn about making the move. I've already postponed two class dates with UAL this year due to uncertainty. If I do decide to join UAL, I'd need to start class by January. Initially, I was attracted to UAL for the possibility of wide-body (WB) flying, but I've previously disregarded it as I like to stay on my own time zone and I value flexibility and QOL.
While UAL offers the opportunity to fly WB international and sit on reserve, I'm unsure if it's worth leaving SWA. Our contract and setup for 737 flying seem superior, and I enjoy the flexibility, vacations, premium pay, and ease of schedule changes at SWA. Although we're facing issues with Elliott and uncertainty about the future, I don't feel my job is threatened. I think SWA is just going through a realignemnt phase in their business model. We don't have the premium cabins that UAL and DAL have been benefitting from in the post-covid travel boom.
Seniority-wise, SWA will likely remain stagnant for the next 2-3 years, depending on when we get planes from Boeing. Our retirement wave is further in the future, and assuming 0% growth, it's looking like a 9-10 year upgrade. I'm 30 and currently on year 2 pay at SWA, with a year 3 raise in May '25.
I'm rethinking UAL because of the variety but I'm unsure if it's worth jumping ship. Comparing apples to apples (737 to 737), SWA seems to have the better contract. UAL's retirements and growth plans are exciting, but I don't want to miss out on a potentially better opportunity. Is variety something really improtant to consider, or is an airplane an airplane at the end of the day?
What I value the most is schedule flexibility, and the ability to make great money for the most time off. Trying to collect information to make an informed decision! I know the grass isn't always greener. Thanks.
If I go to United I could have both ORD/MCO options. ORD works a lot better from IND than MDW. I turn 30 next week. At this point I feel like the best thing is to enjoy SWA in the meantime and whenever United gets back to me I can make a decision then…any advice? I still have the itch to fly WBs but I know I’m taking a seniority hit, but then I look and see I have 35 yrs left and I feel like I’ll be fine if I switch, plus having ORD in my backyard makes it very doable. Thoughts?
10-23-2024 | 11:21 PM
#54
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Joined: May 2022
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I’m in a very similar boat. Year 3 at SWA and just coming back from mil leave. Have a CJO with United and waiting, but it seems like I won’t get in until 6-8 months from now. Sitting now at 45% in MCO. Originally from IND and all my family is there. I’m planning on moving back to IND for family. Currently, my Commute to MCO (tons of direct flights/mil unit is in FL) is easier than MDW for me (no direct flights, but 3hr drive).
If I go to United I could have both ORD/MCO options. ORD works a lot better from IND than MDW. I turn 30 next week. At this point I feel like the best thing is to enjoy SWA in the meantime and whenever United gets back to me I can make a decision then…any advice? I still have the itch to fly WBs but I know I’m taking a seniority hit, but then I look and see I have 35 yrs left and I feel like I’ll be fine if I switch, plus having ORD in my backyard makes it very doable. Thoughts?
If I go to United I could have both ORD/MCO options. ORD works a lot better from IND than MDW. I turn 30 next week. At this point I feel like the best thing is to enjoy SWA in the meantime and whenever United gets back to me I can make a decision then…any advice? I still have the itch to fly WBs but I know I’m taking a seniority hit, but then I look and see I have 35 yrs left and I feel like I’ll be fine if I switch, plus having ORD in my backyard makes it very doable. Thoughts?
10-24-2024 | 01:57 AM
#55
On Reserve
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
am in a similar spot to OP. I've been with SWA for 1.5 years and have a CJO with UAL. With 1400 pilots beneath me at SWA (although hiring is currently frozen due to MAX issues), I'm in a relatively good position, especially considering my seniority and 58% in base seniority in LAX, living and driving from north county SAN.
Despite this, I'm torn about making the move. I've already postponed two class dates with UAL this year due to uncertainty. If I do decide to join UAL, I'd need to start class by January. Initially, I was attracted to UAL for the possibility of wide-body (WB) flying, but I've previously disregarded it as I like to stay on my own time zone and I value flexibility and QOL.
While UAL offers the opportunity to fly WB international and sit on reserve, I'm unsure if it's worth leaving SWA. Our contract and setup for 737 flying seem superior, and I enjoy the flexibility, vacations, premium pay, and ease of schedule changes at SWA. Although we're facing issues with Elliott and uncertainty about the future, I don't feel my job is threatened. I think SWA is just going through a realignemnt phase in their business model. We don't have the premium cabins that UAL and DAL have been benefitting from in the post-covid travel boom.
Seniority-wise, SWA will likely remain stagnant for the next 2-3 years, depending on when we get planes from Boeing. Our retirement wave is further in the future, and assuming 0% growth, it's looking like a 9-10 year upgrade. I'm 30 and currently on year 2 pay at SWA, with a year 3 raise in May '25.
I'm rethinking UAL because of the variety but I'm unsure if it's worth jumping ship. Comparing apples to apples (737 to 737), SWA seems to have the better contract. UAL's retirements and growth plans are exciting, but I don't want to miss out on a potentially better opportunity. Is variety something really improtant to consider, or is an airplane an airplane at the end of the day?
What I value the most is schedule flexibility, and the ability to make great money for the most time off. Trying to collect information to make an informed decision! I know the grass isn't always greener. Thanks.
Despite this, I'm torn about making the move. I've already postponed two class dates with UAL this year due to uncertainty. If I do decide to join UAL, I'd need to start class by January. Initially, I was attracted to UAL for the possibility of wide-body (WB) flying, but I've previously disregarded it as I like to stay on my own time zone and I value flexibility and QOL.
While UAL offers the opportunity to fly WB international and sit on reserve, I'm unsure if it's worth leaving SWA. Our contract and setup for 737 flying seem superior, and I enjoy the flexibility, vacations, premium pay, and ease of schedule changes at SWA. Although we're facing issues with Elliott and uncertainty about the future, I don't feel my job is threatened. I think SWA is just going through a realignemnt phase in their business model. We don't have the premium cabins that UAL and DAL have been benefitting from in the post-covid travel boom.
Seniority-wise, SWA will likely remain stagnant for the next 2-3 years, depending on when we get planes from Boeing. Our retirement wave is further in the future, and assuming 0% growth, it's looking like a 9-10 year upgrade. I'm 30 and currently on year 2 pay at SWA, with a year 3 raise in May '25.
I'm rethinking UAL because of the variety but I'm unsure if it's worth jumping ship. Comparing apples to apples (737 to 737), SWA seems to have the better contract. UAL's retirements and growth plans are exciting, but I don't want to miss out on a potentially better opportunity. Is variety something really improtant to consider, or is an airplane an airplane at the end of the day?
What I value the most is schedule flexibility, and the ability to make great money for the most time off. Trying to collect information to make an informed decision! I know the grass isn't always greener. Thanks.
10-24-2024 | 05:24 AM
#57
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,865
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I’m in a very similar boat. Year 3 at SWA and just coming back from mil leave. Have a CJO with United and waiting, but it seems like I won’t get in until 6-8 months from now. Sitting now at 45% in MCO. Originally from IND and all my family is there. I’m planning on moving back to IND for family. Currently, my Commute to MCO (tons of direct flights/mil unit is in FL) is easier than MDW for me (no direct flights, but 3hr drive).
If I go to United I could have both ORD/MCO options. ORD works a lot better from IND than MDW. I turn 30 next week. At this point I feel like the best thing is to enjoy SWA in the meantime and whenever United gets back to me I can make a decision then…any advice? I still have the itch to fly WBs but I know I’m taking a seniority hit, but then I look and see I have 35 yrs left and I feel like I’ll be fine if I switch, plus having ORD in my backyard makes it very doable. Thoughts?
If I go to United I could have both ORD/MCO options. ORD works a lot better from IND than MDW. I turn 30 next week. At this point I feel like the best thing is to enjoy SWA in the meantime and whenever United gets back to me I can make a decision then…any advice? I still have the itch to fly WBs but I know I’m taking a seniority hit, but then I look and see I have 35 yrs left and I feel like I’ll be fine if I switch, plus having ORD in my backyard makes it very doable. Thoughts?
as someone who left NK after 12 years and the age of 44, if I were you I’d go to UAL in a heartbeat. Better bases, more variety, more “planned” growth and more retirements. What I would give to have the opportunity to come to United 14 years ago
10-24-2024 | 05:32 AM
#58
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 91
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From: 737 CA
I recently had an FO who was on probation that left SWA after 5 years . He said it was night and day difference in usage of the 737. He mentioned being in PMs in the summer and always being late and rushing due to short turns. He said the effect of that every trip was fatiguing. He also told me that the technology at SWA seemed quite a bit behind as well. He told me he was very happy with his decision to leave SWA for UAL. DC area so driving to BWI vs. IAD.
10-24-2024 | 06:17 AM
#59
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 787
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I recently had an FO who was on probation that left SWA after 5 years . He said it was night and day difference in usage of the 737. He mentioned being in PMs in the summer and always being late and rushing due to short turns. He said the effect of that every trip was fatiguing. He also told me that the technology at SWA seemed quite a bit behind as well. He told me he was very happy with his decision to leave SWA for UAL. DC area so driving to BWI vs. IAD.
10-24-2024 | 07:21 AM
#60
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,671
Likes: 17
am in a similar spot to OP. I've been with SWA for 1.5 years and have a CJO with UAL. With 1400 pilots beneath me at SWA (although hiring is currently frozen due to MAX issues), I'm in a relatively good position, especially considering my seniority and 58% in base seniority in LAX, living and driving from north county SAN.
Despite this, I'm torn about making the move. I've already postponed two class dates with UAL this year due to uncertainty. If I do decide to join UAL, I'd need to start class by January. Initially, I was attracted to UAL for the possibility of wide-body (WB) flying, but I've previously disregarded it as I like to stay on my own time zone and I value flexibility and QOL.
While UAL offers the opportunity to fly WB international and sit on reserve, I'm unsure if it's worth leaving SWA. Our contract and setup for 737 flying seem superior, and I enjoy the flexibility, vacations, premium pay, and ease of schedule changes at SWA. Although we're facing issues with Elliott and uncertainty about the future, I don't feel my job is threatened. I think SWA is just going through a realignemnt phase in their business model. We don't have the premium cabins that UAL and DAL have been benefitting from in the post-covid travel boom.
Seniority-wise, SWA will likely remain stagnant for the next 2-3 years, depending on when we get planes from Boeing. Our retirement wave is further in the future, and assuming 0% growth, it's looking like a 9-10 year upgrade. I'm 30 and currently on year 2 pay at SWA, with a year 3 raise in May '25.
I'm rethinking UAL because of the variety but I'm unsure if it's worth jumping ship. Comparing apples to apples (737 to 737), SWA seems to have the better contract. UAL's retirements and growth plans are exciting, but I don't want to miss out on a potentially better opportunity. Is variety something really improtant to consider, or is an airplane an airplane at the end of the day?
What I value the most is schedule flexibility, and the ability to make great money for the most time off. Trying to collect information to make an informed decision! I know the grass isn't always greener. Thanks.
Despite this, I'm torn about making the move. I've already postponed two class dates with UAL this year due to uncertainty. If I do decide to join UAL, I'd need to start class by January. Initially, I was attracted to UAL for the possibility of wide-body (WB) flying, but I've previously disregarded it as I like to stay on my own time zone and I value flexibility and QOL.
While UAL offers the opportunity to fly WB international and sit on reserve, I'm unsure if it's worth leaving SWA. Our contract and setup for 737 flying seem superior, and I enjoy the flexibility, vacations, premium pay, and ease of schedule changes at SWA. Although we're facing issues with Elliott and uncertainty about the future, I don't feel my job is threatened. I think SWA is just going through a realignemnt phase in their business model. We don't have the premium cabins that UAL and DAL have been benefitting from in the post-covid travel boom.
Seniority-wise, SWA will likely remain stagnant for the next 2-3 years, depending on when we get planes from Boeing. Our retirement wave is further in the future, and assuming 0% growth, it's looking like a 9-10 year upgrade. I'm 30 and currently on year 2 pay at SWA, with a year 3 raise in May '25.
I'm rethinking UAL because of the variety but I'm unsure if it's worth jumping ship. Comparing apples to apples (737 to 737), SWA seems to have the better contract. UAL's retirements and growth plans are exciting, but I don't want to miss out on a potentially better opportunity. Is variety something really improtant to consider, or is an airplane an airplane at the end of the day?
What I value the most is schedule flexibility, and the ability to make great money for the most time off. Trying to collect information to make an informed decision! I know the grass isn't always greener. Thanks.
SWA isn't the same. SWA is a single type LCC with no transoceanic flying (excluding Hawaii). They are also in upheaval being effected by the death of the ULCC/LCC business model. What worked great for them 20-30 years ago doesn't work in today's market. There's no telling what they will be in 10 years.
I faced the same decision leaving allegiant for AA. Allegiant is a profitable carrier doing well and I was a mid seniority CA with about 10 years in but I worried where that company will be in 10 years or so. At best I calculated they would plod along with little improvement. So I made the jump and have no regerts. I'm a fairly senior FO making almost as much as I made as a G4 CA and working a whole lot less. I could upgrade if I wanted to.
UAL has a lot more to offer you long term so unless you're close to retirement I think it would be foolish to turn down the CJO. In fact I'd say you made a huge mistake postponing it twice and losing seniority.
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