Boom going super today (live stream)
02-05-2025 | 08:04 AM
#31
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
The thing that has changed is the quiet boom research. They are banking on no or little sonic boom to change the prohibition of supersonic over land. This is why going supersonic the first time is so important. Not tht the plane can do it, but the instrumented test data about the pressure waves. They will have to do subsequent tests--wo the T-38 chase plane's boom, to start measurements.
Now, there has never been a civilian project, except the Concord, that has successfully built a supersonic commercial venture. Yes, you can even argue the Condord was a dismal failure after building only 12 planes. I doubt this venture has the financial resources to do any better. Small market, small number of potential passengers, very expensive program.
But, I hope they succeed anyway. Time to shake up Boeing and Airbus! (Not that they aren't in the midst of a cataclysmic--cool word BTW--market shift already!)
Now, there has never been a civilian project, except the Concord, that has successfully built a supersonic commercial venture. Yes, you can even argue the Condord was a dismal failure after building only 12 planes. I doubt this venture has the financial resources to do any better. Small market, small number of potential passengers, very expensive program.
But, I hope they succeed anyway. Time to shake up Boeing and Airbus! (Not that they aren't in the midst of a cataclysmic--cool word BTW--market shift already!)
But yes there's currently government/industry collaboration research to shape pressure waves to mitigate or even eliminate the booms, and it looks like it can be done. Obviously Boom is banking on getting relief on that. That part is well within the plausible from where I sit.
I think the most questionable component of this is a commercially viable engine, not the sonic boom mitigation. But I won't write much of anything off anymore, not after watching spaceX launch the largest man-made object to ever fly, return it to launch site and grab it out of the air for re-use. Concorde is 60 year old technology, we may have made some advances since then.
02-12-2025 | 01:05 PM
#32
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I would think if sonic boom prohibition changes, their chances of success go up exponentially, as many possible city pairings emerge spawning more opportunites for sales. However if mostly flying transcon lets say....they will still need to fly slow enough to comply with STARS, or at least slow enough to allow for sequencing.
My support or lack there of notwhithstanding, the current transatlantic eastbound market is atleast 80% red eyes........and it makes sense right. Leave US east coast after work/dinner....rest well in comfort and luxury on the plane and arrive in CDG, LHR, FRA in time for the working day. Airlines will tell you that individuals and businesses are willing to pay many Amelican Dollah for da Businees class. Are the gains made by time going to justify the losses in comfort????
Think about it....lets say now you leave JFK at 7 or 8 AM, and now you BOOM away to LHR is only 2:40 .....YOU STILL lost most of that working day becuause despite your increased velocity it's still 14:40 or 15:40 because the UK is still 5 hours ahead of US East Coast. Now Transatlantic Westbound......I think they have a market there, people will pay for the time gained.
My support or lack there of notwhithstanding, the current transatlantic eastbound market is atleast 80% red eyes........and it makes sense right. Leave US east coast after work/dinner....rest well in comfort and luxury on the plane and arrive in CDG, LHR, FRA in time for the working day. Airlines will tell you that individuals and businesses are willing to pay many Amelican Dollah for da Businees class. Are the gains made by time going to justify the losses in comfort????
Think about it....lets say now you leave JFK at 7 or 8 AM, and now you BOOM away to LHR is only 2:40 .....YOU STILL lost most of that working day becuause despite your increased velocity it's still 14:40 or 15:40 because the UK is still 5 hours ahead of US East Coast. Now Transatlantic Westbound......I think they have a market there, people will pay for the time gained.
That doesn't include the Asian markets. Think Apple alone can't fill a Boom going SFO to China? The operators of the Concord were European nations where there wasn't a gigantic overwater route to Asia available (plus the increased Asia business market). The US has two coasts where extra speed is a big benefit.
I initially thought Boom was just a PR stunt. I still think it is, but if it succeeds (a big if still) it'll be a game changer. Even better if the FAA changes the rules on overland supersonic flight.
Last edited by JediCheese; 02-12-2025 at 01:38 PM.
02-12-2025 | 03:21 PM
#33
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Once it's possible, the big spenders on corporate accounts are going to take it. How much money is being made in Polaris vs the cheap seats in back? How many new GS members to you snipe from AA/DL by offering the service? There are network effects to having it available (as United has found out to it's detriment from previously pulling out of the SFO-JFK routes).
That doesn't include the Asian markets. Think Apple alone can't fill a Boom going SFO to China? The operators of the Concord were European nations where there wasn't a gigantic overwater route to Asia available (plus the increased Asia business market). The US has two coasts where extra speed is a big benefit.
I initially thought Boom was just a PR stunt. I still think it is, but if it succeeds (a big if still) it'll be a game changer. Even better if the FAA changes the rules on overland supersonic flight.
That doesn't include the Asian markets. Think Apple alone can't fill a Boom going SFO to China? The operators of the Concord were European nations where there wasn't a gigantic overwater route to Asia available (plus the increased Asia business market). The US has two coasts where extra speed is a big benefit.
I initially thought Boom was just a PR stunt. I still think it is, but if it succeeds (a big if still) it'll be a game changer. Even better if the FAA changes the rules on overland supersonic flight.
Modern airline engines are an engineering model. They operate about 20 hours a day at over 100,000 rpm in incredible extreme temperatures. Now add the stress of supersonic flight. GE and RR found the business model untenable or impossible despite their extensive engineering resources and capital. This thing is a pipe dream.
02-12-2025 | 03:26 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2017
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From: NYC 7ERA
THERE ARE NO ENGINES!
Modern airline engines are an engineering model. They operate about 20 hours a day at over 100,000 rpm in incredible extreme temperatures. Now add the stress of supersonic flight. GE and RR found the business model untenable or impossible despite their extensive engineering resources and capital. This thing is a pipe dream.
Modern airline engines are an engineering model. They operate about 20 hours a day at over 100,000 rpm in incredible extreme temperatures. Now add the stress of supersonic flight. GE and RR found the business model untenable or impossible despite their extensive engineering resources and capital. This thing is a pipe dream.
Last edited by CX500T; 02-12-2025 at 03:36 PM.
02-12-2025 | 03:35 PM
#35
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Joined: Aug 2020
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THERE ARE NO ENGINES!
Modern airline engines are an engineering model. They operate about 20 hours a day at over 100,000 rpm in incredible extreme temperatures. Now add the stress of supersonic flight. GE and RR found the business model untenable or impossible despite their extensive engineering resources and capital. This thing is a pipe dream.
Modern airline engines are an engineering model. They operate about 20 hours a day at over 100,000 rpm in incredible extreme temperatures. Now add the stress of supersonic flight. GE and RR found the business model untenable or impossible despite their extensive engineering resources and capital. This thing is a pipe dream.
02-12-2025 | 03:48 PM
#36
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02-12-2025 | 06:15 PM
#37
On Reserve
Joined: Apr 2010
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OR
Maybe, just maybe, there's precedent for this (Concorde) and we could put a little faith in our union to negotiate rates that are commensurate with the job of flying our (potentially) flagship aircraft.
Nah, you're right, we'll be assigning this thing in BI to new hires.
02-12-2025 | 07:28 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,041
Likes: 252
From: A320 FO
THERE ARE NO ENGINES!
Modern airline engines are an engineering model. They operate about 20 hours a day at over 100,000 rpm in incredible extreme temperatures. Now add the stress of supersonic flight. GE and RR found the business model untenable or impossible despite their extensive engineering resources and capital. This thing is a pipe dream.
Modern airline engines are an engineering model. They operate about 20 hours a day at over 100,000 rpm in incredible extreme temperatures. Now add the stress of supersonic flight. GE and RR found the business model untenable or impossible despite their extensive engineering resources and capital. This thing is a pipe dream.
Supersonic engines on the other hand haven't seen as much development in those directions. The major engine manufacturers passed for the same reasons Boeing and Airbus did on a SST. It cannibalizes their existing product lines and is a moon shot level pipe dream.
Successful pipe dreams are what Schumpterian creative destruction is all about. Many will try and most will fail but occasionally an upstart will come in and change everything because the dinosaurs at the top of the industry had no incentive to do so.
02-12-2025 | 09:33 PM
#40
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,167
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From: Aircraft & Seat: old & hard
#threaddrift... Few decades ago worked corporate, and we were paid by the month. Citation 10 guys were alway talking about how they flew the fastest jet (always doing 5-6 hour transcons). I would always answer: Nope, CJ1 is the fastest, never takes more than 3 hours to get to point B.
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