SFO incident today
06-02-2025 | 08:07 PM
#31
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2020
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From: AOG
06-03-2025 | 07:19 AM
#32
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2014
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Do we know this crew actually experienced a runway change? That is, they loaded one departure during preflight, but after pushback ATC changed their clearance?
Or, did they just screw up the preflight? Asking because, a runway change checklist wouldn't help in the second case.
Or, did they just screw up the preflight? Asking because, a runway change checklist wouldn't help in the second case.
06-03-2025 | 08:38 AM
#33
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
I’ve flown into SFO as a pax a few times, never as crew. If I’m not mistaken, the ops that day were parallel takeoff on the ones and parallel landings on 28. Is this common and what kind of Charlie Fox ensues if the crew asks for a short delay while they re-program the box? One other thing, is SFO the place where the ATIS mentions the possibility of last minute rwy changes on the departure?
This is normal. Kind of a crapshoot which runway you might get for landing, but probably more likely 28R.
Heavies depart off 28's. Most NB's off the 01's
For departure off the 01's, you do not have to guess, you'll be assigned the runway corresponding to the direction of the SID routing, and can have it all loaded at the gate. Going to PVR? Plan 01L. ANC? Plan 01R.
ATC doesn't seem to play games with runway changes for the 01's.
06-03-2025 | 08:43 AM
#34
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
It's possible they didn't know the SFO routine, and just guessed the departure runway, like we do all the time at a variety of airports, and then find out when we call for taxi. Of course in that case you need to have the SA to verify you're setup for the right one.
06-03-2025 | 09:14 AM
#35
Orbis Non Sufficit
Joined: Oct 2015
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Expected SFO runway assignment is listed on PDC or CPDLC. Actual runway assignment from ground, with readback. Verified once “above the line”. Verified twice on the callout approaching the runway. Reverified if we do a runway change, when we are supposed to reaccomplish “above the line”, if we have already gotten that far. What more could the company have us do procedurally? There’s not much to investigate here. Sometimes we just don’t pay attention…and then stuff like this happens.
06-03-2025 | 09:17 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2018
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Do we know this crew actually experienced a runway change? That is, they loaded one departure during preflight, but after pushback ATC changed their clearance?
Or, did they just screw up the preflight? Asking because, a runway change checklist wouldn't help in the second case.
Or, did they just screw up the preflight? Asking because, a runway change checklist wouldn't help in the second case.
06-03-2025 | 09:59 AM
#38
off weekends (if Reserve)
Joined: May 2023
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So sort of…… but there is no specific “Runway Change Checklist” accomplished as a READ and DO that some carriers have in their NORMAL checklist card. In short you just have to re do the before take off checklist if you already did it once applying the Runway/Sid change procedure.
If the runway, SID, or conditions that affect takeoff performance change comply with RUNWAY/SID change PROCEDURE ( which is not really a read and do either) ……then ACCOMPLISH/ RE ACCOMPLOSH the before takeoff checklist.
Error trapping in this area could (not necessarily have to) be improved.
As a technique on the Airbus at least, many crews load the secondary, plus secondary Perf page for foreseeable runway change assignments, that way…..the runway Change procedure is accomplished by one button push as opposed to 11-15.
06-03-2025 | 10:13 AM
#39
Bent over by buybacks
Joined: Feb 2017
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It's priceless that the old guys on the LEPF/EPAS/whatever Age 67 page are trying to blame the FO for this incident.
Apparently, in their advanced decline, these old guys forgot the captain is ultimately responsible for making sure the FMS is properly programmed.
Apparently, in their advanced decline, these old guys forgot the captain is ultimately responsible for making sure the FMS is properly programmed.
06-03-2025 | 10:15 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,100
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Kinda like how those guys blamed the FO on your Maui 777 when the captain was the PF who nose dived the plane.
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