EWRflyr

Unfortunately, it's these "slight openings" that management sees and hopes for. "If we can pay off just enough guys, then we can get that scope relief." Your higher payout or payrate or whatever will be offset by all the junior pilots, myself included, who will be forced onto the street over greed.

I'm not saying that is your stance at all. Just using that statement as what management hopes for. Many senior people live in their small-picture world and could care less about the junior pilots if money is involved. I haven't met one yet that will admit to this thinking so I am cautiously optimistic that they won't fall for that ruse. Fortunately, we have two MECs that have to agree to let scope go out the window before it gets to a pilot vote and I just don't see that happening with UAL and CAL MECs given history on scope relief.

Fr8Master

You mean couldn't care less?

oncea57cap

First off, I definitely don't agree with that thinking, I just agree that that is a reality that must be considered. Fortunately, the pilots at CAL and UAL are at a point of unprecedented negotiating power and absolutely have the power to a return to UAL's contract 2000 wages, work rules and scope protection. This contract metric still provides massive profitability for the new CAL/UAL. Not only does the combined company balance sheet and revenue projection satisfy this, the union has been saying this over and over (not sure where the confusion is). (Delta +1% - not a chance! Those guys are already scratching their heads as all revenue estimates are already strangely being beaten.) Obviously, if the company can give the pilots a little less, they will try, but time is on the pilots' side and the company is desperate to wrap this up quick, before quarterly earnings start rolling and the union demands more. If the JCBA misses the fall deadline it will only benefit the pilots in the long term, but I don't expect that it will as most things were worked out a long time ago.

EWRflyr

Great! Then we are on the same page. I figured this from reading your post, but didn't want to ASS-U-ME anything.


On this part though, I disagree. I doubt very seriously if anything, other than dues check off or something inane like that, has been "worked out" a long time ago. Two hard ball management groups don't indicate to me that they came to us willingly with pockets open to say they agree to anything.

oncea57cap

True. While specific pay scales were not worked out a long time ago, agreements were reached on principle regarding scope and pay. It was the only way to get a unanimous decision from the board, to include UAL's one pilot seat. Granted the merger would have gone ahead without a yes vote from the pilot on the board, but getting that vote was fairly important and that vote was not going to be yes, without a) work rule restoration, b) scope protection ( do you think the UAL pilot would have voted yes without that guarantee), and c) pay restoration. Now with regards to "c," 25% may seem like a decent number, it is a fairly insignificant percentage in relation to the additional revenue the merger will generate. So, the one unknown is where between 25% and Contract 2000 does the JCBA end up.

SoCalGuy

Knowing nothing about UAL Contract 2000 rates.....I was curious what the rough ball park percentage in decrease (pay scale wise) your current pay rates are compared to what they were under Contract 2000?? I realize it's hard to quantify across the board....just a ball park guess.

(Not getting tunnel vision of $$/Hr, a lot more to a CBA than that, just trying to get a feel of what BK did to the contract).

oncea57cap

Contract 2000 - 12 yr B747 cap - effective May1, 2004 - $348.62
Contract 2003 - 12 yr B747 cap - effective May1, 2009 - $178.93

757Driver

That's f'ing unbelievable. A 50% reduction???

Fritzthepilot

No. They call it shared sacrifice.

Do you really think they are going to produce a JCBA in two months that will satisfy us?

oncea57cap

The short answer is yes. "The pilots are so demoralized that they will accept 25% and trade away contract 2000 wages for scope restoration and work rules. This is the metric for an October summation." And a stake in the new company - maybe 10% - not sure on that.