boxer6

Sure.. best of of luck.. that's the ticket. You'll take that because you're on the side of a potential windfall.

What part of Smisek's statement that CAL as a stand alone carrier will eventually fail do you not comprehend? Do you really want someone to dig up that quote? I believe he said that last summer as I read the commentary on your new merger. Do you believe he said that because he was joking or just plain being disingenuous? If you step back and look at the big picture you have to come to the realization that those left without a merger partner will be at a serious competitive disadvantage. Just look at where AMR is.. rumor of a merger with USAirways??? Seriously? Do you really think AMR wants to even deal with that company and the hornet's nest that comes along with it? The rumors also abound with AK and JBLU. Even SWA, the organic growth proponent, is trying to do a deal. There are reasons..serious reasons... that all the merger chatter is occurring. If UAL decided to merge with someone (LCC) else that would have left CAL with few options. AMR? Besides the difficulty in the network overlap (e.g. NYC) how do you think you would have fared with APA? You can ask the guys at Reno Air and TWA for realistic answer. Of course the other option of going it alone brings us back to Smisek's comment last summer.


So if you want to talk about career expectations do not look backward as the crystal ball looking forward. It really is utterly irrelevant. This merger in of and itself is a windfall to you. You should take comfort that this new company will a competitive entity with a much greater chance that it survives until your retirement versus CAL alone. How much is that worth to you?

If I'm hearing you correctly you would be totally comfortable:

1) For the '99 hires at UA, most of them 45-50+ yrs old, to take the possible furlough of parking the old CAL 767-200's and the 500's after the SLI.

2) To move into the left seat of UA's fleet and more numerous widebodies for a nice 20-30 year position while the opportunity of those seats would be removed permanently for those 45-50 yr olds UA guys that would have otherwise seen them as they would have eventually made it to top of their own list sans the merger.

As a sideliner, I see a HUGE windfall for the junior CAL and SERIOUS penalty for those late '99 hire senior UA furloughee's. I would argue that even if those several hundred (and who really knows how many of them will come back) were placed ahead of the 2004/5 hires at CAL that segment of the CAL list wouldn't even notice a hickup in their progression because of the number of airplanes UA brought to the list. In fact with the additional UA aircraft your progression would still be more accelerated than it would be as a stand alone CAL carrier.

For those CAL folks who are in their 30's or younger you ALONE will completely OWN not only your fleet but UA's fleet during the last 10-20 years of your career. All those UA furloughees that you are worried about now will long gone and in a nursing home by time you reach your 60's

Now that's a pretty good windfall... don't you think? Why don't we leave the greediness label for the CEO's.

Andy

It was only one event that would have made the difference. prater and the dc gang pulled a deal behind closed doors to get Congress change the retirement age to 65. One day Mica kept the bill bottled in subcommittee, then several days after alpo's push poll, Mica released the bill from subcommittee.
But for that, none of us would have been twice furloughed.

furloughforlife

Great Post, Boxer.

CitationD

No, you don't know. In fact, you have no idea and I take great offense to that comment. Good luck with your "career expectations" - it sounds like you've got it all figured out. You young pups are funny.

skippy

Cal was, is and always will be he domestic narrowbody and latin america carrier, ual was, is and always be EVERYTHING ELSE!
Career expectations cal vs ual. Are u serious? Its not even close. U can keep ur freaking cal. If i wanted ur "cal's" career expectations, i wouldve applied- i didnt yeah im furloughed but still making more than if i were at either carrier. So i could care less and will prob only come back if i get longevity credit.

ewrbasedpilot

The first two B787's are also supposed to come on line in Feb of 2012, in addition to the NG's we're currently taking delivery of. At any rate, it'll take a while for the 500's to be parked. The problem with the 500's is that they are fuel pigs. They burn more than a B-737-900ER with FULL pax and fuel! The ONLY good thing about them is they have two JS's in the cockpit.

ewrbasedpilot

You just keep thinking that way because you are WRONG. We have a major presence in Europe and the Caribbean as well. But then again, as a 98 hire, I'm in the left seat at CAL, whereas at UAL, I'd be only a few from being furloughed. Since you're furloughed, you have NO career expectations at this point. You need to change your glasses as apparently they're pretty fogged up. Keep dreaming about the longevity credit...........I highly doubt you'll go before active pilots. Oops.........there's those foggy glasses you're looking through again.............. (BTW, can we cut with the high school "lingo"......?)

ewrbasedpilot

Our ONLY "windfall" will be POSSIBLY a better contract.......and that's about it. We're not gonig to get a nice pay raise since the UAL pilots will have to be brought up to our level. We're not getting new routes (my bad, ORD to FLL....WOW!), and our planes are pretty nice with new deliveries coming every month or so. A few pilots may get something good, but not many. Nope, not much of a windfall in my estimation.

XHooker

Yes, there is. It's called a Duty of Full Representation lawsuit. If CALALPA doesn't fight tooth and nail for every one of it's pilots during the SLI, it's not carrying out its responsibility to its pilot group. Making the unilateral decision to place one third of its list below the UAL double furloughees would rightly result in a DFR lawsuit from that bottom third. Is it fair? That depends which side of the fence you're on. Should there be a national seniority list? That's another issue, unfortunately, there isn't and it'll be up to the arbitration board to decide most of the SLI.

jsled

The 1725 747/777 pilots, or 31% of the active list will not need to be "brought up to our level". But I am sure you will enjoy the doubling of your existing widebody fleet and the payscales that come with them. I am sure many CAL pilots that would not have touched that top scale, will now enjoy it as a result of this merger. Can't say that for UAL pilots. In fact, just the opposite. Many that would have, including furloughees, will not. Your welcome.