UAL Capt in DEN (December-2010)
04-08-2011, 11:27 AM
#131
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
There's no discussion here - aircraft loading decisions are not within the purview of customer service, let alone when it doesn't even involve a customer.
An OMC and a NRSA are not the same thing. An OMC is an operating crewmember of the flight. A NRSA is neither a crewmember nor a customer.
BAGGAGE
Individuals traveling OMC must comply with United carry-on baggage policy, and are authorized to use the primary and secondary pilot baggage stowage locations. See Pilot Baggage in the Operating Information chapter. A flight must not be delayed to accommodate cockpit observer baggage. An OMC may check baggage in the terminal or at the gate on United domestic and international flights. Bags checked in the terminal are subject to the same security controls applied to all checked baggage.
Found this in Skynet by searching for CSR Manual. It appears only to exempt UA Crew members.:
UA CREW MEMBER CARRY-ON BAGGAGE
UA Crew members, both pilots and flight attendants, traveling on company business commuting to or from a work assignment or working, including deadheading in or out of uniform, are not subject to customer carry-on limitations. Flight Operations regulates that pilots who are not working the flight are limited to two carry-on items not including their flight kits.
04-08-2011, 12:22 PM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
Originally Posted by syd111
Did a walk around last week if your keeping score.
You've got me beat by one. Seriously, did you tell the ramp guys where to load the containers in the pits when you were down there?
L
04-08-2011, 02:49 PM
#134
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by Lambourne
That is the job of the CSR, Ramp and Load Planning. Are you down stairs telling them where to place each container? Do you even have an idea of how much each container weighs or how it affects the CG? If you are a Captain when is the last time you even did a walk around?
From our FOM. Appears that an OMC is still required to comply with baggage policy.
BAGGAGE
Individuals traveling OMC must comply with United carry-on baggage policy, and are authorized to use the primary and secondary pilot baggage stowage locations. See Pilot Baggage in the Operating Information chapter. A flight must not be delayed to accommodate cockpit observer baggage. An OMC may check baggage in the terminal or at the gate on United domestic and international flights. Bags checked in the terminal are subject to the same security controls applied to all checked baggage.
Found this in Skynet by searching for CSR Manual. It appears only to exempt UA Crew members.:
UA CREW MEMBER CARRY-ON BAGGAGE
UA Crew members, both pilots and flight attendants, traveling on company business commuting to or from a work assignment or working, including deadheading in or out of uniform, are not subject to customer carry-on limitations. Flight Operations regulates that pilots who are not working the flight are limited to two carry-on items not including their flight kits.
From our FOM. Appears that an OMC is still required to comply with baggage policy.
BAGGAGE
Individuals traveling OMC must comply with United carry-on baggage policy, and are authorized to use the primary and secondary pilot baggage stowage locations. See Pilot Baggage in the Operating Information chapter. A flight must not be delayed to accommodate cockpit observer baggage. An OMC may check baggage in the terminal or at the gate on United domestic and international flights. Bags checked in the terminal are subject to the same security controls applied to all checked baggage.
Found this in Skynet by searching for CSR Manual. It appears only to exempt UA Crew members.:
UA CREW MEMBER CARRY-ON BAGGAGE
UA Crew members, both pilots and flight attendants, traveling on company business commuting to or from a work assignment or working, including deadheading in or out of uniform, are not subject to customer carry-on limitations. Flight Operations regulates that pilots who are not working the flight are limited to two carry-on items not including their flight kits.
04-08-2011, 04:32 PM
#135
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,213
Originally Posted by C172Driver
I have no dog in this fight. And any fellow pilot may correct me if I am wrong, but does gate checking a bag delay a flight, when compared to stowing it in the cockpit?
04-08-2011, 05:40 PM
#136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
I am enjoying this simply because I have had a few discussions (hissy fits) with both Carl and Lambourne. In this case I will side with Carl. This of course is only based on the evidence presented here on APC.
Since I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night, I am still trying to remember the difference between assault and battery. Isn't one verbal and one physical? In this case did in fact a physical confrontation happen or was it more like one of the mature discussions I have had with Carl and LB?
The Oscar
P. S. I personally will put any jumpseaters bag where I want to. The plane aint moving if I say it aint.
Since I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night, I am still trying to remember the difference between assault and battery. Isn't one verbal and one physical? In this case did in fact a physical confrontation happen or was it more like one of the mature discussions I have had with Carl and LB?
The Oscar
P. S. I personally will put any jumpseaters bag where I want to. The plane aint moving if I say it aint.
Last edited by OscartheGrouch; 04-08-2011 at 07:46 PM.
04-08-2011, 05:52 PM
#137
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B737 CAPT IAH
Posts: 1,130
Originally Posted by Lambourne
JD,
To throw the hypothetical at you. If you were assaulted by a CSR what actions would you take? Would you walk away and say that nothing happened? Would you report this to anyone? If you received a physical assault would you engage a police officer?
The Captain is not in hot water over his use of Authority. He is hot water over a purported Physical Assault. I don't believe anywhere in the FOM or the FAR's it allows physical assault as part of Captains Authority.
Whether or not you or I can prove what happened on the jetway. It will be up to the evidence and the courts to decide is an attack occurred. I was told there is a video in the jetway. Simple logic would be that there must be some evidence of a physical altercation, otherwise I think this would have died long ago.
I had an FO that went gonzo at the TSA Checkpoint during the enhanced patdown parties last winter. Flew with him recently and said he is being fined some significant amount of $$ by the TSA for his actions at the checkpoint. They have the video of him at the checkpoint during the entire event.
Do you hit your wife and tell her it is your Captain's Authority to do so?
L
To throw the hypothetical at you. If you were assaulted by a CSR what actions would you take? Would you walk away and say that nothing happened? Would you report this to anyone? If you received a physical assault would you engage a police officer?
The Captain is not in hot water over his use of Authority. He is hot water over a purported Physical Assault. I don't believe anywhere in the FOM or the FAR's it allows physical assault as part of Captains Authority.
Whether or not you or I can prove what happened on the jetway. It will be up to the evidence and the courts to decide is an attack occurred. I was told there is a video in the jetway. Simple logic would be that there must be some evidence of a physical altercation, otherwise I think this would have died long ago.
I had an FO that went gonzo at the TSA Checkpoint during the enhanced patdown parties last winter. Flew with him recently and said he is being fined some significant amount of $$ by the TSA for his actions at the checkpoint. They have the video of him at the checkpoint during the entire event.
Do you hit your wife and tell her it is your Captain's Authority to do so?
L
Your use of "hypothetical" and other insinuation insults the intelligence of the the other pilots on the board IMO.
To be honest with you, if I was assaulted at work by a CSR or joe bag of donuts on the street, the individual will be on the floor, face first, arm lock, and my knee in the back of their neck preventing any movement. I will then ask the closest person to call the police. The individual will not move until the police arrive. Not out of malice but because I would be "fearful" that I might be exposed to further assault if I allowed the individual the freedom to try.
Does that answer your "hypothetical" question?
Now, since you have a hard-(* for this case, why don't you spend the dime, go on the Denver legal sight, pay the fee, and allow us all to read (granted one sided police report and DA's position) on the case.
Or, you can sit back and wait without casting aspersions on the individuals in question.
Frats,
Lee
04-09-2011, 04:14 AM
#138
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
Originally Posted by LeeFXDWG
L
Or, you can sit back and wait without casting aspersions on the individuals in question.
Frats,
Lee
Or, you can sit back and wait without casting aspersions on the individuals in question.
Frats,
Lee
Lee,
I do enjoy a good double standard. If you suggest I shouldn't comment about the Capt. Shouldn't you say the same to those posting ideas on how to make the csr's life miserable?
L
Last edited by Lambourne; 04-09-2011 at 04:24 AM.
04-09-2011, 04:27 AM
#139
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
Originally Posted by LeeFXDWG
L
Now, since you have a hard-(* for this case, why don't you spend the dime, go on the Denver legal sight, pay the fee, and allow us all to read (granted one sided police report and DA's position) on the case.
Frats,
Lee
Now, since you have a hard-(* for this case, why don't you spend the dime, go on the Denver legal sight, pay the fee, and allow us all to read (granted one sided police report and DA's position) on the case.
Frats,
Lee
Glad to know the Capts version wasn't one sided......
04-09-2011, 06:10 AM
#140
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Carl,
Maybe United doesn't have this gem in their FOM like we do:
• Differences from written procedures or other instructions should be
brought to the Captain’s attention.
• If, after involving the expanded team as appropriate, the order still
stands, it is to be obeyed.
Hence, at Delta, it wouldn't matter what was in the ACS manual. If a Delta captain says the bag goes in the cabin, it goes in the cabin period.
Maybe United doesn't have this gem in their FOM like we do:
• Differences from written procedures or other instructions should be
brought to the Captain’s attention.
• If, after involving the expanded team as appropriate, the order still
stands, it is to be obeyed.
Hence, at Delta, it wouldn't matter what was in the ACS manual. If a Delta captain says the bag goes in the cabin, it goes in the cabin period.
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