Lambourne

You choose to commute. The airline doesn't mandate you jumpseat to and from work.

All this talk of Captain's Authority. I don't see anywhere in the following that would make a jumpseaters bag part of Captains Authority.


CAPTAIN’S AUTHORITY AND RESPONSIBILITY
The Captain is designated as the pilot-in-command.

The Captain serving as pilot-in-command has full responsibility and is the final authority for the safe operation of the airplane. The Captain directs the activities of all crewmembers in a manner which promotes safety, responsibility, and operational effectiveness.

Captain’s authority relative to the safe operation of the airplane and over crewmembers is absolute during airplane movement and all flight-related preflight and postflight decisions. The Captain represents United as the on-site leader and uses his position to protect and support fellow crewmembers and the Company.

1. At times, Captain’s emergency authority may supersede all of United Flight Operations policies and FARs to ensure the safe operation of the airplane.

2. The Captain’s operational orders receive prompt compliance from all crewmembers while under his command.
3. Deviations from United procedures, FARs, or other official instructions must be promptly brought to the Captain’s attention.

4. In the absence of the Captain from the cockpit, the Captain designates the acting Captain during his absence. Any directive by a pilot acting on behalf of the Captain is followed as if the order came directly from the Captain.

5. The Captain conducts the preflight planning and preflight briefing of the operational pilots. The Captain also conducts the Flight Attendant Coordination Briefing with all the working flight attendants if possible but, as a minimum, with the Purser.

6. The Captain makes the final decision as to whether or not an airplane may be safely operated. Where appropriate, consultation with other departments to resolve maintenance irregularities, customer service issues, operational planning, etc., may be required.

7. The Purser reports to the Captain and is the primary liaison between the Captain and the flight attendants. The Purser informs the Captain of all onboard emergencies, irregular issues, passenger concerns, and cabin discrepancies.

8. The Captain conducts all postflight briefings and remains in command until the end of the duty period or until the Captain relinquishes his command.

9. The Captain is expected to foster open communication and is charged with exercising leadership by example as set forth in the ALPA Code of Ethics, FOM, and the FARs. The Captain is to be supported by all crewmembers by verbal input of any pertinent information to enhance C/L/R.



Does anyone know what the Customer Service regulations are for OMC/NRSA bags? What if their policy supports the CSR in this instance? I did see that UA does pay for damage NRSA bags. So Bligh maybe your carrier that broke your handle has a similar policy. This is what I found on Skynet:

United will cover all reasonable, actual and verifiable expenses related to baggage loss, damage or delay up to the established baggage liability limits set forth by the US Department of Transportation for domestic travel and the Montreal Convention for international travel, including domestic portions of international travel.

Soi Dog BKK 1

You just don't get it do you.

Carl Spackler

Of course you don't see it. It's surrender monkeys like you that make the job of us real pilots more difficult. If more guys like you learned to do the right thing, then many ground personnel would not try to be captains. When you don't act like a captain, you hurt your fellow pilots and embolden all the unlicensed "captains" out there who are sick of their CSR job.

Carl

ualjd

My point was not about what the captain did. That is why I used a totally ridiculous example of his behavior. It is what started it. To use your use of analogy...If a kid steals a candy bar and is caught and the police show up and shoot the kid through the head is the kid innocent of stealing the candy bar?
It is NOT about how the captain may have handled the situation. That is what the trial is about. What is much more important is the erosion of Captain authority and the precedent that this incident will do to empower other employee groups to disregard our authority. the incident is a result of the captain being denied a decision dealing with his aircraft.

Oh, and the remark about the wife was totally inappropriate for even putting it out there. Your point was made (however poor) without it.
Should I finish this with do you cuddle your gay lover after sex..oh you aren't gay?

Lambourne

In your example of the kid stealing the candy bar. You could argue the police used excessive force for theft of a candy bar. In this situation IF the Capt. was physical with the CSR wouldn't that be excessive force for what he perceived as the CSR not doing his job correctly.

You appear to be a reasonable person. I don't draw a parallel with erosion of Captain's Authority and a Captain striking another employee physically. Being physical with another employee is not a part of Captain's Authority. IF the Captain was physical with the agent then I don't understand how you could support him.

Someone that is so emotionally unstable that he or she can't keep from being physical doesn't belong on a flight deck. Maybe some anger management classes would help. I sure wouldn't want someone like that as an FFDO either.

Lambourne

Carl,

Can you pick out a piece from the Captain's Authority section and make a case for the OMC bag? I am willing to read and follow reasonable arguments.

Do you have reference from the CSR manual about NRSA/OMC bags? What is your position IF the CSR was doing exactly as his manual told him to do?

L

syd111

As I read it and again I was not there it sounds like they bumped each other, not sure I would call that striking someone.

Carl Spackler

There is no such thing as a Captain's Authority section of the FAR's...just many descriptions of the responsibilities and obligations of the Pilot In Command. FAR 91.3 is just one example. None of the FAR's talks about OMC baggage, just that the Pilot In Command is responsible and is the final authority for the aircraft. Your point is that this does not cover OMC baggage. You are wrong. The PIC is responsible for everything that happens. Everything. Even things that are beyond his/her control.

Since you're so hung up on this OMC bag thing, please post the relevant portions of the FAR's and/or United FOM that states the PIC shall have no authority over the placement of an OMC's bags. Thank you...I'll wait.

Carl

ualjd

Seriously dude, am I married to you? You don' listen (read) very well. You keep coming back to the assault. IT ISN'T ABOUT THE ASSAULT. It is about the captain's right to put the bag where he determines and not the CSRs business. DO YOU GET THAT?? Try not to think past the initial meeting of the captain and the csr. It is not the point. It doesn't matter how he handled it. It doesn't matter who hit who and who said what. It is about the captains right to interject..to make a decision..to exert control over his aircraft.....

Sniper

On the most basic level, this is an issue of a representative of customer service and a designated PIC of a flight making an aircraft loading decision involving a crewmember's possessions.

There's no discussion here - aircraft loading decisions are not within the purview of customer service, let alone when it doesn't even involve a customer.

Customer service is placing 'Joe Nobody' in steerage and 'Jeff Frequent-flier' in First, vs. the other way around.

I see 2 places a PIC could look to for support, other than the FAR's, of course.

An OMC and a NRSA are not the same thing. An OMC is an operating crewmember of the flight. A NRSA is neither a crewmember nor a customer.

• The Captain represents United as the on-site leader and uses his position to protect and support fellow crewmembers and the Company.

In this case, the JetBlue pilot, occupying the flightdeck jumpseat, was clearly a 'crewmember'. It is in fact the PIC's job, as stipulated by United, to explicitly "protect and support" this JetBlue pilot. Is it stretching the policy to protect and support the integrity of the crewmember's baggage, the time cost to the crewmember of having to go to baggage claim, or the peace of mind of the crewmember knowing that he will have more direct control of his possessions - a decision left to the PIC, it seems. If a CSR tells the PIC that a FA or pilot bag should go in the belly to make more room for premium passenger coat hanging, can the PIC overrule the CSR?

• The Captain makes the final decision as to whether or not an airplane may be safely operated. Where appropriate, consultation with other departments to resolve maintenance irregularities, customer service issues, operational planning, etc., may be required.

The PIC may be required to consult with other departments on "operational planning". It is unclear in this specific example whether the PIC actually choose to consult with a representative of customer service regarding an issue involving aircraft loading (an OMC is not a customer, thus this was not in any way a "customer service issue"), or if a representative of customer service made the decision to consult with the PIC about an aircraft loading issue. Either way, the authority for making "the final decision" is delegated to the PIC, not only by United Airlines, but by the FAR's as well.

The US Department of Transportation and Montreal Convention regulations both operate on the stipulation that you are in a business transaction - ie, a customer who 'trades' currency for a service, in this case, transportation. While United may or may not extend these same limits to NRSA and/or crewmember baggage damage, this would be a company policy, not a regulatory requirement.

--
As to the allegation of assault and the physical altercation between this specific pilot and this specific CSR - that's a separate issue. I'll assume, like the government does, that this Captain didn't err until found otherwise at an impartial hearing.