PilotMan

I don't believe the officer did make the ultimatum. If you reread the write up it clearly says "The implication was clear, fly or be arrested."

The person writing the article used conjecture to determine that since the pilot was arrested for not flying, that it was the officer, who implied, that if he didn't fly he would be arrested.

That is a logic fallacy meant to persuade the reader.

According to the writer, the officer pointed out that he was delaying the flight and inconveniencing passengers and that too, is part of the captains responsibility.

What really transpired in between is left to the reader to determine as the facts aren't given. The truth lies somewhere in between.

Lambourne

Thank you for a logical look at this report. Was this a clash of personalities? Perhaps, but the only thing that we know for sure is the pilot was arrested. I get the sense from most airport police that they would side with a pilot, unless that pilot was being an unreasonable JA. The history of the Captain would support this theory.

I suppose the question now is what was the outcome of the court event yesterday? Is he being sent to the supermax?



L

Captain Bligh

Continuance, but your little cell diagram sure has me convinced to never stand up to a CSR...

gettinbumped

Wow. You continue to amaze. And not in a good way.

Scott Stoops

+1... Thanks for taking the tact you do. We need more like you.

Scott

FWIW, IMHO, the jet doesn't move until all FAR's/concerns are satisfied to the PIC's and SIC's requirements. Simple as that. With 16 years in, 7 as a Captain, I find that argument works wonders when it comes to "pressing to test" type individuals that have no authority over us... Bring it - the Cap has the brake and the responsibility to ensure that he/she, the crew, the A/C and all other FAR requirements are met. I refuse to let someone with zero regulatory responsibility or threat influence (FAA, NTSB, etc) direct the decision made ahead of the fortress door...

LeeFXDWG

L,

Nothing logical other than the fact we all admit we weren't there.

You consider this Capt to be a JA. Fine, I don't know him personally.

With some time as a LEO before entering the USAF, I can tell you that "personalities" are always involved in these types of issues. Duh.

I can say that, assuming that what was written regarding "fly or jail," can't be true if an assault actually occurred. Such a position would violate the rights of the "victim." If the assault occurred, it goes to a level of 1st degree misdemeanor at a minimum. Arrest occurs. There is no middle ground or options for the officers.

Let it play out. Continuance was issued from what I heard. Doesn't have a bearing on guilt whatsoever. That is how the system works.

Leave it alone and stop your drivel on what you think about this pilot. It has nothing to do with the case, what happened, etc...... Perhaps we can find some folks that have a less than stellar opinion of you to chime in. I forgot, everyone loves you, right?

All this, "I would have..." crap is Monday morning quarterbacking. We all weren't there. The fact that someone said the Capt had a meltdown on the jetway is also just another bunch of crap if they weren't there. Any video will be part of the process for certain.

The fact that a DA is going to try to prosecute on original charges adds some credence to some of your points. Still, sit back and watch. If found guilty, then come back and let us know why you weren't surprised. Innocent until proven guilty.

Frats,
Lee

Lambourne

I saw the OJ verdict so pardon me if I am skeptical about the process and outcome. The fact it is still being prosecuted is the thing that I think speaks volumes about this case. If it held ZERO merit it would have been tossed IMHO.


L

Lambourne

You may want to be sure you have all the FAR's on your side prior to your press to test session. An OMC bag in the cockpit? Did they resolve the issue of space for crew bags in the cockpit on the bus? Last time I was on the fleet there was one spot behind the F/O and the other crew bag was designated in the closet. So let's say they now have two spots. Where did you put the OMC bag Captain when you delayed the flight? And you knowingly violated the FOM Captain? Better get ALPA on the speed dial and order up a snicker's bar. It's going to be awhile.

You are flying an airplane. You, me plus 6,000 other blue suited, stripped tie wearing pilots. You are not superman. Do your job, let the others do theirs and try out something you may have learned from your parents I hope: Treat others the way you want to be treated. I suspect that 99 times out of 100 if you treat the CSR's, MM, FA's nicely they will treat you nicely in return. If they don't then just accept that you met the other person like yourself that has spun themselves up on a message board.

L

gettinbumped

Wrong. You are not up to date on the A320 bag storage. Since you don't seem to care about taking care of OMC's and their luggage, I won't bother to educate you.

I'm not sure why you are so absolutely terrified of this company that you wouldn't dream of taking a delay to make sure the OMC is taken care of. I got charged a 3 minute delay yesterday that was absolutely NOT my fault because the station was hoping to sneak it in there to hide the actual (ramp baggage loading delay) reason. I didn't bother to follow up and correct it, and later got an ACARS from somebody asking if I wanted to explain what happened. I didn't. Guess what happened? Nothing.

Nobody is talking about being Superman. We are talking about taking care of each other, both on and off-line pilots. We are talking about banding together against what to all the rest of us has been a long, continuous degradation of Captains Authority.

I'll remember you said you want to be treated the way you treat others. If the unfortunate happens and you have an incident here at UAL or elsewhere, I'll be sure to smear your name, post pictures of the jail cell or FAA long table that you are facing, and pretend that I know everything about what happened even though I wasn't there.

I am incredulous that you would come on here and post the things you have about this pilot, whether you like him or not. With fellow pilots like you, who needs management for a good screw job?

Lambourne

Is there approved storage for 3 suitcases in the airbus cockpit? Not saying I wouldn't put three in there to get an OMC and his bags on board. I just wouldn't go postal doing it and call attention to myself breaking an FOM regulation. Not saying I wouldn't help, but I wouldn't take the bull in a china shop method that seems to be the preferred method by many here.

Didn't ALPA endorse that ACARS program? So you are now going even further rouge and not following ALPA either? You really are a Maverick as Ms. Palin would say.

I totally agree in taking care of each other. But the methods you choose and the methods I choose to accomplish the same task seem to be at odds. I have had good success with kindness and pleasantries. I take scowling and being a Richard Cranium has worked for you. Two paths, same destination. My ulcer level is very low, how is yours?

,You didn't like the picture? It is humor, feel free to jump in anytime you wish. You are so much like all the people you seem to hate. Easily offended and set to take offense at pretty much anything because the world is out to get you. Get over yourself. You aren't that important.

So I should lie and tell everyone that he is a stand up guy? How many truely innocent bystanders do you know that have been suspended or faced punitive action from the company? I can count on one hand the number of guys that I have known personally that have been as deep as this guy is the woodshed process. Of those I knew, all were guys that were doing things to get themselves into trouble.

L