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What are the odds of getting LAX?
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Originally Posted by Lambourne
(Post 1023216)
Hate to break the news to you....But CAL and UAL are part of the same company. If this was not a recall there would be interviews required and I suspect some would not be hired. Just the law of averages and attitudes.
You can turn your back on the opportunity. This is one of the few things ALPA was able to secure. Would you have rather had newhires off the street sitting in those seats while our furloughs while away waiting on mother UAL? Maybe you could go kick your dog and make you day happier. Let the guys that want the job over what they are doing now enjoy something. I bet you are real fun guy on New Years Eve. L "A Pilot accepting an offer under this provision will be subject to the normal background and employment requirements of the employing Airline." I know when you are "recalled", they have to do a background check, but what are the "employment requirements"? An "interview", a "sim check". Some pilots were turned down (or didn't have a chance to interview) at CAL because of "background", or not meeting "employment requirements". So such a furloughed UAL pilot, may not be offered this "opportunity" at CAL... Or am I over thinking this? |
Originally Posted by Coto Pilot
(Post 1023705)
What are the odds of getting LAX?
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Originally Posted by contrail67
(Post 1023502)
How hard is it to hold CLE, especially after a shakedown and shuffle with 200 pilots added.
A short history. CLE had 650 pilots before 9/11 and it was the most junior base. At the same time the first round of 450 furloughs occurred, CAL made a marketing decision to reduce CLE by 400 positions. Basically all the lost positions came out of CLE. After the reshuffling of people on the system bid CLE was suddenly a very senior base. Since then, there has not been any lack in people wanting to return. With 2/3 of the base being displaced in 2002, there will always be folks coming back after their stint as commuters in a different place or larger equipment. 737 FO most senior to least. LAX, CLE, IAH, EWR, GUM. 737 CA most senior to least. LAX, CLE, EWR, IAH, GUM. |
13-A. Partial Termination. Unless the Parties agree otherwise, the Airline Parties may jointly terminate the provisions of Sections 4-D (Domiciles), 7-A (Furlough with regard to United Pilots only), 7-C (Flying Ratios), 7-D (Domicile and Base Protection), and 9 (ALPA Travel), individually or collectively, at any time on or after December 31, 2011, if the parties have not reached a tentative agreement on a JCBA by that date. 13-D. Effect of Termination . Termination of this Transition and Process Agreement will not affect a Party’s obligations under Sections 3, 7-B-(iv), 8, 11, 12, and applicable definitions in Section 1, nor will it affect any outstanding payment obligations under Section 15. A Pilot who has been employed pursuant to Section 7-B will continue, at his option, to be employed by the employing Airline in accordance with that Airline’s collective bargaining agreement; however, two (2) months after termination of this Transition and Process Agreement his pay rate going forward will be adjusted to reflect only his accrued service credit at the employing Airline. What's your take on this section. It apears to me that we could go back to first year pay if the agreement is terminated by the company. |
Originally Posted by Frogman
(Post 1023755)
13-A. Partial Termination. Unless the Parties agree otherwise, the Airline Parties may jointly terminate the provisions of Sections 4-D (Domiciles), 7-A (Furlough with regard to United Pilots only), 7-C (Flying Ratios), 7-D (Domicile and Base Protection), and 9 (ALPA Travel), individually or collectively, at any time on or after December 31, 2011, if the parties have not reached a tentative agreement on a JCBA by that date. 13-D. Effect of Termination . Termination of this Transition and Process Agreement will not affect a Party’s obligations under Sections 3, 7-B-(iv), 8, 11, 12, and applicable definitions in Section 1, nor will it affect any outstanding payment obligations under Section 15. A Pilot who has been employed pursuant to Section 7-B will continue, at his option, to be employed by the employing Airline in accordance with that Airline’s collective bargaining agreement; however, two (2) months after termination of this Transition and Process Agreement his pay rate going forward will be adjusted to reflect only his accrued service credit at the employing Airline. What's your take on this section. It apears to me that we could go back to first year pay if the agreement is terminated by the company. What do you think the company's response would be if 200 guys walked out after being trained? |
Originally Posted by Frogman
(Post 1023755)
13-A. Partial Termination. Unless the Parties agree otherwise, the Airline Parties may jointly terminate the provisions of Sections 4-D (Domiciles), 7-A (Furlough with regard to United Pilots only), 7-C (Flying Ratios), 7-D (Domicile and Base Protection), and 9 (ALPA Travel), individually or collectively, at any time on or after December 31, 2011, if the parties have not reached a tentative agreement on a JCBA by that date. 13-D. Effect of Termination . Termination of this Transition and Process Agreement will not affect a Party’s obligations under Sections 3, 7-B-(iv), 8, 11, 12, and applicable definitions in Section 1, nor will it affect any outstanding payment obligations under Section 15. A Pilot who has been employed pursuant to Section 7-B will continue, at his option, to be employed by the employing Airline in accordance with that Airline’s collective bargaining agreement; however, two (2) months after termination of this Transition and Process Agreement his pay rate going forward will be adjusted to reflect only his accrued service credit at the employing Airline. What's your take on this section. It apears to me that we could go back to first year pay if the agreement is terminated by the company. |
13-C. Termination by Notice. An Airline Party or ALPA may terminate this
Transition and Process Agreement on fifteen (15) days notice delivered to the other Parties at any time following termination of the Merger Agreement under Section 8.1 of that Agreement. As it was explained to me, 13-C was the only way the agreement could be terminated unilaterally and since the merger has already progressed beyond the point of no return, this section no longer applies. FWIW. |
Originally Posted by Frogman
(Post 1023755)
13-A. Partial Termination. Unless the Parties agree otherwise, the Airline Parties may jointly terminate the provisions of Sections 4-D (Domiciles), 7-A (Furlough with regard to United Pilots only), 7-C (Flying Ratios), 7-D (Domicile and Base Protection), and 9 (ALPA Travel), individually or collectively, at any time on or after December 31, 2011, if the parties have not reached a tentative agreement on a JCBA by that date. 13-D. Effect of Termination . Termination of this Transition and Process Agreement will not affect a Party’s obligations under Sections 3, 7-B-(iv), 8, 11, 12, and applicable definitions in Section 1, nor will it affect any outstanding payment obligations under Section 15. A Pilot who has been employed pursuant to Section 7-B will continue, at his option, to be employed by the employing Airline in accordance with that Airline’s collective bargaining agreement; however, two (2) months after termination of this Transition and Process Agreement his pay rate going forward will be adjusted to reflect only his accrued service credit at the employing Airline. What's your take on this section. It apears to me that we could go back to first year pay if the agreement is terminated by the company. You will note that '7-B (Job Opportunities)' is absent from the partial termination section below (13-A). The pay provision of 7-B can only be terminated if the entire T/A is terminated, and since 13-C is no longer a player, that leaves 13-B. Which takes Alpa concurrence. 13-A. Partial Termination. Unless the Parties agree otherwise, the Airline Parties may jointly terminate the provisions of Sections 4-D (Domiciles), 7-A (Furlough with regard to United Pilots only), 7-C (Flying Ratios), 7-D (Domicile and Base Protection), and 9 (ALPA Travel), individually or collectively, at any time on or after December 31, 2011, if the parties have not reached a tentative agreement on a JCBA by that date. 13-B. Termination by Agreement. The Parties may terminate this Transition and Process Agreement whenever they shall agree to do so. 13-C. Termination by Notice. An Airline Party or ALPA may terminate this Transition and Process Agreement on fifteen (15) days notice delivered to the other Parties at any time following termination of the Merger Agreement under Section 8.1 of that Agreement. 13-D. Effect of Termination. Termination of this Transition and Process Agreement will not affect a Party’s obligations under Sections 3, 7-B-(iv), 8, 11, 12, and applicable definitions in Section 1, nor will it affect any outstanding payment obligations under Section 15. A Pilot who has been employed pursuant to Section 7-B will continue, at his option, to be employed by the employing Airline in accordance with that Airline’s collective bargaining agreement; however, two (2) months after termination of this Transition and Process Agreement his pay rate going forward will be adjusted to reflect only his accrued service credit at the employing Airline |
Recall to CAL
I am about 700 to 800 down the list on seniority for UAL. Am just retiring from the military and will take a recall if offered. I thought as a recalled UAL pilot to CAL, we would keep our seniority for pay purposes. I think I remember reading that somewhere. So, year 4-5 pay at CAL not that bad when compared to other options. Can anyone find any reference to starting out at first year pay? thanks.
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Originally Posted by Bugs
(Post 1023851)
Can anyone find any reference to starting out at first year pay?
Section 7-B covers the furlough recalls and you will be paid the higher of your UAL rate at time of furlough or the CAL rate for your CAL longevity. |
If you were able to get Guam are the schedules built for commuters...ie: a long block of days off followed by 6 on? And is there a allowance for being based there..thx.
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Thanks!
Cadet, thanks. I thought that was the case.
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Many thanks for the reserve info. I did not realize the CAL rules were so much more onerous. Since most of us UAL furloughees would be commuters, I think many will pass. It sounds like reserve at CAL pretty much requires a crashpad and being within 2 hours of the airport anytime you are on a day on. The fact that they can then involuntarily move a third of your days off is an insult. I think that's a deal-breaker for me...
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Originally Posted by APC225
(Post 1023704)
CAL's is not for commuters. The pilots didn't have any long call until the most recent contract so they didn't even really know what to ask for (apparently). Nine-hour callout is not a commuting callout. It is simply 24 hours on call and you go into FAA min rest when called. That's it. Just min rest. 13 hours actually gives you time to commute.
CAL's are mostly short call with a 3-hour to push callout. This really puts it down to a 2 to 2 1/2 hour call out because you have to get to ops to checkin on the company computer, get your flight kit, check vfile, etc and block out 3 hours after the call. It's a very short leash. Assigned at 1500 or after you block it, whichever is later. Reserves can pickup after 9am the day before, not 28 hours. And a reserve cannot do anything without talking to cs. You always have to talk to cs for anything as a reserve. It is one of the things that make you feel under their thumb. One cs interprets one way, another cs another. The application of "policies" in the blank areas of the contract can be wide. Eight days fixed. Pilot can move them but if he does they become unfixed, so not a good idea to move them. Pretty much same, except 24 hours off can be anywhere, for anybody. Ha! You've got to be kidding. No wonder negotiations stalled when they got to scheduling section. CAL is 10 (11 in EWR) min for both lineholders and reserve. One way cs can get around even this for reserves is to keep adding to the trip so that even though it overnights in a domicle, since it part of a trip, you don't get in domicle rest (but they do have to give you a hotel). For the lineholder if he doesn't put a larger number in his PBS monthly bid, PBS will give him a redeye, min rest in base, and then start another trip that night. Block in at 6am, block out at 4pm. Fun, fun, everyone's looking forward to the weekend, weekend. If I read the UAL contract correctly, UAL pilots must have 16 hours no duty before a redeye. CAL works pilots out to the west coast in the morning, min rest, and then redeye back that night--with another leg after the redeye at times. In fact, as long as it doesn't exceed the duty day, CAL will work right into a redeye (late IAH-PHX, one hour on the ground, redeye). If only we can hang on to this in the JCBA. It might actually cause some seat movement. There are a lot of FOs parked in senior spots because no one wants to sit reserve. When the company said they were going to take the best of both worlds in the JCBA, I'm sure "best" to them was CAL's work rules. I'm glad it's not going that way. Imagining QOL at CAL is like trying to imagine military basic training before you go. You really can't comprehend what you've gotten into until you're in the middle of it. If the unions can't get UAL workrules, and much better I hope, in the JCBA it's going to be a miserable 10 years for a lot of people. You simply can't imagine. |
Originally Posted by gettinbumped
(Post 1023907)
Wow. Thanks for the highlights. That sounds HORRIBLE. Hopefully the negotiating committee is standing firm on UAL's reserve policy!
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Originally Posted by Bugs
(Post 1023851)
I am about 700 to 800 down the list on seniority for UAL. Am just retiring from the military and will take a recall if offered. I thought as a recalled UAL pilot to CAL, we would keep our seniority for pay purposes. I think I remember reading that somewhere. So, year 4-5 pay at CAL not that bad when compared to other options. Can anyone find any reference to starting out at first year pay? thanks.
Thunder1 |
From: FurloughedPilots <[email protected]>
Subject: Continental New Hire Opportunity Date: July 15, 2011 12:06:35 PM CDT To: FurloughedPilots <[email protected]> Fellow Furloughed Pilots, As you are now probably well aware, Continental has announced plans to hire up to 200 United furloughed pilots. This is a great first step to returning us to the cockpits’ of the new United Airlines . Many of us have wondered when this might occur and with this question answered, we now have many more questions. As my colleagues and I work out the details of the new hire classes at Continental we will be in a better position to answer your questions. In the meantime, I suggest you prepare yourself. I encourage you to read the Transition Agreement 7b (attached) to learn more about the guidelines we are working under. Also, please verify United Airlines has your current address. You may do this by calling the Pilot Service Center at 1-800-825-7533 option 2 or you may email them at [email protected] and provide them with your name, file number and contact information you would like to verify. If you find that United has old information, please email me immediately with your updated information at [email protected]. As you think this opportunity over and discuss it with family and friends please keep in mind two important facts; first, you will be a new hire at Continental and will bid schedules accordingly, second, some of these positions could be in Guam. As we establish the process for new hires and when we begin contacting you we will provide you with as much information as we can so you may make the most informed decision possible. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me at the number below. Sincerely, Ted McCaughan Furlough Coordinator, Flight Operations United | 233 S. Wacker Drive, 23rd Floor – WHQFO | Chicago, IL 60606 Tel. 872 825 9416 | [email][email protected] |
Originally Posted by Thunder1
(Post 1023914)
5 yr F/O pay at CAL is $84/hour on a 737-700. That is horrible! Please up your expectations and your self-worth as a professional pilot. We all should be paid better at the largest airline in the world. I know that with your mil retirement you're thinking to yourself that you'll be making good coin with the combined salary. However, your mil retirement should have no bearing on what you are paid by the largest airline in the world. We should be on par with SWA pay which APC posts as 126/hr at year 5. CAL is a full 33% lower than SWA. This next contract needs to be not necessarily industry leading but at least competitive. Competitive would be within 5-10% of the PAX industry leader in pay. Just my 2 cents. Congratulations on your military retirement -- thanks for serving!
Thunder1 Not competitive ------ leading |
Originally Posted by jsled
reserve pick up option: allows you to pick up a trip in open time 28 hrs prior to departure on the computer without crew sched involvement.
Originally Posted by APC225
Reserves can pickup after 9am the day before, not 28 hours.
And a reserve cannot do anything without talking to cs. You always have to talk to cs for anything as a reserve. |
Originally Posted by dumpcheck
(Post 1023892)
Many thanks for the reserve info. I did not realize the CAL rules were so much more onerous. Since most of us UAL furloughees would be commuters, I think many will pass. It sounds like reserve at CAL pretty much requires a crashpad and being within 2 hours of the airport anytime you are on a day on. The fact that they can then involuntarily move a third of your days off is an insult. I think that's a deal-breaker for me...
Crew Scheduling can "convert" a pilot from A-reserve (long call) to B-reserve (short call) as they deem necessary. |
Originally Posted by jsled
reserves get 14 hours block to block rest in domicile. this cannot be waived by pilot, but can be waived by crew sched if "only rsv available"
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Originally Posted by EWRflyr
(Post 1023993)
Seems to be opposite of all the other "pro-pilot" provisions you've mentioned. The reserve cannot waive his rest but SCHEDULING can decide to waive that rest??? To me, the term "waive" means in the hands of the pilot not scheduling.
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Originally Posted by EWRflyr
(Post 1023991)
And what makes it even worse as was pointed out somewhere else:
Crew Scheduling can "convert" a pilot from A-reserve (long call) to B-reserve (short call) as they deem necessary. They would call, and say you are now short call listed. Basically giving you 14-17 hours to get to the airport. (10-13 hour call out (long call) depending on the situation, plus the 4 hour time to be at the airport if they used you). |
Originally Posted by Thunder1
(Post 1023914)
5 yr F/O pay at CAL is $84/hour on a 737-700. That is horrible! Please up your expectations and your self-worth as a professional pilot. We all should be paid better at the largest airline in the world. I know that with your mil retirement you're thinking to yourself that you'll be making good coin with the combined salary. However, your mil retirement should have no bearing on what you are paid by the largest airline in the world. We should be on par with SWA pay which APC posts as 126/hr at year 5. CAL is a full 33% lower than SWA. This next contract needs to be not necessarily industry leading but at least competitive. Competitive would be within 5-10% of the PAX industry leader in pay. Just my 2 cents. Congratulations on your military retirement -- thanks for serving!
Thunder1 I was looking at going to SkyWest for year 2 pay, $37 per hour, until this happened. So I know I am worth more, but it isnt what you are worth, it is what they are willing to pay. |
Originally Posted by Bugs
(Post 1024118)
I agree that my military retirment pay should not be factored in to my expectations of my worth. I have applied to FEDEX, SW, Dynamic, L3, Pueblo IFS, RPAs, Southern Air, GS job as Sim IP and anyone else hiring. Not getting much of a response. If you don't get a call from a major player, you are going to make low wages. I have 20 yrs flying in the AF, not one black mark on my record. I have 4,500tt, 3,500 pic, 2,500 IP, all in jet traininers, fighters, and with UAL. I have tons of contacts for all these jobs, but not much they can do when SW is calling 100 out of 7000 and FedEx is hiring 20 per month out of a pool of 10,000. Even if I am in the top 5% it will take me a year to get called.
I was looking at going to SkyWest for year 2 pay, $37 per hour, until this happened. So I know I am worth more, but it isnt what you are worth, it is what they are willing to pay. I'm not judging you or anyone, just showing another side. |
Originally Posted by EWRflyr
(Post 1023989)
We have two aggressive pickup windows: for long-call A reserves 0900-1100 each day for the next day. For short-call B reserves, 1200-1300 each day. Can only pick up trips which match your days of availability unless you are available 5-6 days then you can pick up 4-day trips. An A reserve picking up for his first reserve day after days off is released or not phone liable until checkin on that first day. The B-reserve can pick up for his first day BUT crew scheduling can and often does assign a call block prior to your show time.
Originally Posted by EWRflyr
ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE! There have been months on reserve where I NEVER talked to crew scheduling. I used the aggressive pickup window to choose the trips I wanted. You can avoid talking to scheduling as a reserve pretty easily if you are proactive, check CCS as part of your normal trip routines, etc.
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Originally Posted by Bugs
(Post 1024118)
I agree that my military retirment pay should not be factored in to my expectations of my worth. I have applied to FEDEX, SW, Dynamic, L3, Pueblo IFS, RPAs, Southern Air, GS job as Sim IP and anyone else hiring. Not getting much of a response. If you don't get a call from a major player, you are going to make low wages. I have 20 yrs flying in the AF, not one black mark on my record. I have 4,500tt, 3,500 pic, 2,500 IP, all in jet traininers, fighters, and with UAL. I have tons of contacts for all these jobs, but not much they can do when SW is calling 100 out of 7000 and FedEx is hiring 20 per month out of a pool of 10,000. Even if I am in the top 5% it will take me a year to get called.
I was looking at going to SkyWest for year 2 pay, $37 per hour, until this happened. So I know I am worth more, but it isnt what you are worth, it is what they are willing to pay. |
Originally Posted by dosbo
(Post 1024157)
I prefer to think of it as what I am willing to do the job for. If they don't want to pay me what I think I am worth then they can, and probably will, find someone else to do it cheaper. Which is why I refuse to take the Skywest/Republic/etc... Jet for Job offer. I believe I am worth more than that and refuse to outsource myself.
Thing is that the $37/hr is $4/hr more than UAL and $6/hr more than CAL pays. This is WRONG, and it our own fault. We should never let the ALPA seniority system become that skewed. Under this logic we should have refused our UAL jobs in the first place on this bases as well. We are the ones that have continued to devalue pilots. Management has been all too happy to let us do this. :( We need to fix this and start building ALPA pay scales from the ground up. SP |
It's true that we are own worst enemy, but if "we" don't take the job, there are thousands who would. CFI's willing to take a pay raise to fly a jet. RJ pilots willing to take the starting pay at CAL. Other pilots willing to cross a picket line to advance their career. If everyone is not together when refusing poor jobs and pay, it won't work. I don't have an answer. I can only do my part.
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Originally Posted by SONORA PASS
(Post 1024168)
I turned it down too, but just stop and think about it...
Thing is that the $37/hr is $4/hr more than UAL and $6/hr more than CAL pays. This is WRONG, and it our own fault. We should never let the ALPA seniority system become that skewed. Under this logic we should have refused our UAL jobs in the first place on this bases as well. We are the ones that have continued to devalue pilots. Management has been all too happy to let us do this. :( We need to fix this and start building ALPA pay scales from the ground up. SP AND there is more than one type of aircraft to fly at UAL/CAL. And there were only a few classes that didn't make it to second year pay at UAL. So I am not understanding the comparison here? |
What is the deal with "probation" at CAL if one were to accept? There are those who never finished probation at UAL before being furloughed. Does it start over at CAL, or does the time spent at UAL get credited?
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Originally Posted by Short Bus Drive
(Post 1024227)
What is the deal with "probation" at CAL if one were to accept? There are those who never finished probation at UAL before being furloughed. Does it start over at CAL, or does the time spent at UAL get credited?
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Originally Posted by Short Bus Drive
(Post 1024227)
What is the deal with "probation" at CAL if one were to accept?
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Originally Posted by Short Bus Drive
(Post 1024225)
The $37/hr is second year pay at Skywest. Second year pay at CAL is $20/hr more, and UAL was only $15/hr more.
AND there is more than one type of aircraft to fly at UAL/CAL. And there were only a few classes that didn't make it to second year pay at UAL. So I am not understanding the comparison here? The comparison was in response to a fellow UAL pilot who turned down the Jets for Jobs offer. I do not blame him at all, but questioned the uniform application of the principle used. The Jets for Jobs put UAL pilots at 2nd year pay during their 1st year. If $37/hr is too low for 1st year RJ pay, my comparisson was saying that $31/hr or $33/hr to fly a B737 or A320 is even worse. Sooo... if we say $37/hr is an insult (which it is), we degrade our profession by offering our new hires even less! :confused: No ALPA contract should ever go out for a vote with welfare wages at the entry level. The heavily skewed pay scales destroy the ablity to have any career mobility, and shackle the pilot to his or her company for better, or most often worse. Lets fix this mess and build contract pay scales from the base up. SP |
Originally Posted by SONORA PASS
(Post 1024293)
Bus Driver,
The comparison was in response to a fellow UAL pilot who turned down the Jets for Jobs offer. I do not blame him at all, but questioned the uniform application of the principle used. The Jets for Jobs put UAL pilots at 2nd year pay during their 1st year. If $37/hr is too low for 1st year RJ pay, my comparisson was saying that $31/hr or $33/hr to fly a B737 or A320 is even worse. Sooo... if we say $37/hr is an insult (which it is), we degrade our profession by offering our new hires even less! :confused: No ALPA contract should ever go out for a vote with welfare wages at the entry level. The heavily skewed pay scales destroy the ablity to have any career mobility, and shackle the pilot to his or her company for better, or most often worse. Lets fix this mess and build contract pay scales from the base up. SP SP It isn't only the pay at the J for J program. It is also the longevity, if the longevity accrued at the J for J carrier transferred back to UCAL when called back from furlough I might consider it. It is BS that my job is eleminated, moved to a regional, then I am offered a job at that regional were I may be for many years with pay that lags way behind mainline in subsequent years (I was looking beyond the second year pay as well). Then when several years down the road I am recalled and my longevity at UCAL would return to my furlough point after I have been flying the same airlines customers? What I find insulting is; having my work outsourced, being offered a job at that outsourced company (essentially replacing myself) and having people expect me to be happy about it, being whipsawed against myself, and finally the fact that ALPA thinks it is acceptable to have us outsurce ourselves. |
Originally Posted by dosbo
(Post 1024331)
SP
It isn't only the pay at the J for J program. It is also the longevity, if the longevity accrued at the J for J carrier transferred back to UCAL when called back from furlough I might consider it. It is BS that my job is eleminated, moved to a regional, then I am offered a job at that regional were I may be for many years with pay that lags way behind mainline in subsequent years (I was looking beyond the second year pay as well). Then when several years down the road I am recalled and my longevity at UCAL would return to my furlough point after I have been flying the same airlines customers? What I find insulting is; having my work outsourced, being offered a job at that outsourced company (essentially replacing myself) and having people expect me to be happy about it, being whipsawed against myself, and finally the fact that ALPA thinks it is acceptable to have us outsurce ourselves. I could not agree more with your points. At a minimum the Jets for Jobs offer should have been RJ left seat with pay set at greater of years of service at UAL applied, or pay at UAL adjusted each year for longevity credit. Best would be our old scope clause. UAL jets = UAL pilots. Here is the point I made. We need to consider the same principle when it comes to UAL new hire pay. Why would we permit our own new hires to be paid the welfare wages we despise. In this industry it is safe to say that many future UAL new hires may be veteran pilots on refugee status from other carriers. Lets vote NO on any JCBA that does not correct this airline pilot profession degrading "entry level" pay scale. SP |
Moderators - Please move this thread back to the CAL/UAL Merger Forum.
Having this listed in the Career Builder Hiring News is a HUGE slap in the face to the United Pilots. They are NOT hiring pilots off the street, they are returning UAL pilots to work. :mad: I trust this was an oversight, and not an intentional insult to the furloughed United Airlines Pilots. Please correct this mistake quickly... (If you need to change the thread title fine) SP |
Originally Posted by dosbo
(Post 1024331)
SP
What I find insulting is; having my work outsourced, being offered a job at that outsourced company (essentially replacing myself) and having people expect me to be happy about it, being whipsawed against myself, and finally the fact that ALPA thinks it is acceptable to have us outsurce ourselves. KC |
Originally Posted by dosbo
(Post 1024331)
SP
It isn't only the pay at the J for J program. It is also the longevity, if the longevity accrued at the J for J carrier transferred back to UCAL when called back from furlough I might consider it. It is BS that my job is eleminated, moved to a regional, then I am offered a job at that regional were I may be for many years with pay that lags way behind mainline in subsequent years (I was looking beyond the second year pay as well). Then when several years down the road I am recalled and my longevity at UCAL would return to my furlough point after I have been flying the same airlines customers? What I find insulting is; having my work outsourced, being offered a job at that outsourced company (essentially replacing myself) and having people expect me to be happy about it, being whipsawed against myself, and finally the fact that ALPA thinks it is acceptable to have us outsurce ourselves. |
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