Title changed and returned to CAL/UAL Merger forum. There was no oversight.... the title said HIRING, when that wasn't actually the case.

Will CAL pay for uniforms?

Yes and then they will payroll deduct it.

CAL doesn't pay for uniforms. Maybe our new contract will fix that. CAL uniforms are better than UAL's because we can buy black pants at JC Penny and save $50 a pair On it. Black is easy.

Thanks!

SP

so lets see go to cal at the bottom of the list to get a big fat root in the rear pay freeze for 5 years abused on reserve like there is no tomorrow so where do i sign up.:mad:

True, but 13A is still possible.........it doesn't require ALPA approval. And what damage can UCH do if they start downsizing UAL in favor of CAL ops?

I'll let you imagine the potentials.

Frats,
Lee

Wow, this thread has gone all over the place. From, a rumour to yay to it sucks so bad who would want to, to how much pay, etc. I am a 12/99 UAL DOH with 5+ years off for good behavior. I would love to get back to work, and let my wife stay home with the kids like she's wanted to since 12/99. I just need to know exactly what pay I am coming back to, for planning purposes. Should I figure 7th year UAL 320 pay or what? We could use a decent health, dental plan etc. with 3 kids. I know the current work rules at CAL suck, but, it can't be that way for much longer......right? We have to have a contract within the next year. I imagine, the way my career has gone thus far, that I will be stapled well below the CAL guys in the SLI, but, starting in 2012 all the clingons will be leaving, no? So, the hell should only last so long. I am so confused!!! Shed some light on me oh great forum gods.

Whatever you are currently doing for employment is better than coming to CAL. If you are unemployed, this is also better than coming to CAL. I said the exact same things that you are saying about 4 years ago: "surely they will get a contract soon" "i know it sucks but it can't be that bad." You can read about how **** poor our work rules are all day long, but until you experience all the little nuances that they exploit on a daily basis here, you will not have a complete understanding of what you are getting into. I wish I could convince you to change your mind as it seems you are decided and looking to take a job over here. Perhaps your wife should talk to mine before you commit to this. Please think twice, and think hard: this isn't as bad as you are thinking, it is actually much worse. As for health coverage, I am unsure if you would get it from the start. New hires go 6 months before it coverage begins. Perhaps a good plan would be to come over,get the 737 type, or get current if you already have it, quit, then go to SWA.

I don't qualify as a great forum god, there are many others who believe they are.

However, you need to do what's best for you and your family and spend less time with this blog board stuff. It isn't vetted.

No Lee. We were talking about 7-B (job opportunities). 7-B is NOT included in 13A and so the company CANNOT cancel 7-B without ALPA concurrence (TA termination). IOW, the UAL furloughees that take a CAL job will still be paid their UAL furlough rate. I am well aware of the 13A potential, but that was not the point.

Sled

Poor wording on my part. Scheds cannot "decide" to waive your rest. They cannot assign you another trip with less than 14 hrs block to block unless you are the ONLY reserve available. In the last 5 years and 4 months of straight reserve I have never had this happen. 14 hours in domicile between trips is WAAAAY better than 10 or 11 at CAL, wouldn't you agree?? As for the pilot not being able to waive the 14 block to block...I agree. Sometimes this is a pain in the arse for aggresive pick up. If you block in from an assignment, and you want to pick up a trip that departs 13:59 later, no can do...even if you call scheds. They cannot waive it either if there are reserves available.

Sled

Just curious if furloughed pilots have access to the T&PA because a lot of the answers can be found there. This is pretty simple and seems to have created a lot of confusion. You get paid the HIGHER of your last UAL pay rate or your longevity pay rate at CAL. With zero YOS (year 1) when you start at CAL, your UAL pay rate when you were furloughed will apply since you were there many years.

Again, this is all covered in the T&PA. There will be NO wait period for health benefits for a United pilot coming to Continental. All benefits will start immediately.

7-B. Job Opportunities.
(i) If either Continental or United intends to hire new Pilots, it will first offer
employment to fill such positions in seniority order to Pilots on furlough from the other Airline. Acceptance or rejection of such an offer or failure to qualify will not affect a Pilot’s recall rights or placement on the Integrated Seniority List (which shall be based upon his seniority position at the Pilot’s originating Airline). A Pilot accepting an offer under this provision will be subject to the normal background and employment requirements of the employing Airline. The Pilot will be an employee of the employing Airline, within the applicable ALPA council for that Airline, but will not be required to serve or complete a probation period. Such Pilot will be paid the greater of (1) the actual hourly pay rate he was receiving on the date of his furlough, or (2) the hourly pay rate to which his years of service at the employing Airline otherwise entitles.

(ii) No Pilot shall be entitled to more than two (2) offers of employment pursuant to this Section 7-B. If a Pilot declines the first offer, the employing Airline will not contact him for a second offer until he provides at least thirty (30) days notice to the employing Airline in writing of his desire to re-enter the hiring process. At that time he will be eligible for the next available offer in seniority order.

(iii) Pilots employed pursuant to this Section 7-B will exercise seniority for all purposes at the employing Airline in the seniority order of their originating Airline but junior to all Pilots who were on the seniority list of the employing Airline prior to the Merger Agreement Date. Upon implementation of the ISL Pilots will exercise seniority pursuant to their position on the ISL. All Pilots hired by the employing Airline after the Merger Agreement Date who are not Pilots employed pursuant to this Section 7-B will exercise their seniority for all purposes junior to all Pilots who were on either seniority list prior to the Merger Agreement Date.

(iv) Notwithstanding Section 27, Part 2.A.2, B.2 or C.2 of the Continental CBA, all Pilots on either the United Pilots’ or Continental Pilots’ Seniority List as of the Effective Date of this Agreement employed by Continental shall be eligible for Medical, Dental and Vision Plan coverage on the Pilot’s first day of Active Service.

Oh, I agree because it is worse than that!

Domicile rest in EWR = 10 hours
Domicile rest in IAH/CLE = 9 hours

With the LAX base open now, I can't find anything that indicates the minimum domicile rest for that base. It's not covered in our contract or in the T&PA so something was missed. I'm sure scheduling uses the number that favors the company...9 hours.

Honest question.....What happens to any future hiring ('recall', or whatever the MEC's what to spin the title as) when/if the "Sunset Date" comes about on the TA that is currently in place??

Hoping that I am wrong.....but I'm a firm believer that a JCBA will not see the day of light during 2011. Assuming this is the case, what will happen to the TA section 7 "Job Op" section/provisions IF the JNC's negotiations continue well into 2012? My only concern is the company will "TRY" and use that section's rights (Future Job Ops) 'against' the Pilot Group(s) in future dealings after any "Sunset Date" on the TA comes about. Can anyone clarify/shed light on how this may work? IE-UAL or CAL going outside the Furloughed Pilots in offering 'off the street' pilots jobs for future staffing while JNC negotiations continue.

One thing I am confident, both Pilot Groups as they stand have been slapped/beat/punched for quite sometime. I would hope that the company's smoke-mirrors game of dangling the above mentioned threat over future proceedings/negotiations would be whole-heartedly snubbed knowing that we all have a MUCH bigger reward which we ALL need, and that's the industry leading JCBA.

To those Furloughs that want to come back to flying at CAL, I am glad to see they are afforded the opportunity if you so choose......but to those who find constraints of being on the bottom of the CAL SL - "Reserve" with the current CBA rules, I don't blame you one bit. It does present it's "challenges" (IE-$h1t-sandwich) living under the reserve rules, especially those who are commuting coast to coast.

Best to all, especially to those Furloughed Pilots making decisions in being 'offered' CAL Pilot Positions.

Geez, Slick...why haven't you quit yet?

Slick, How long have you been unemployed for? How many times? How long have you gone without health insurance?

These smell like rhetorical questions, so
have it your way then...
Come on over, it is super here at CAL. I'm sure you will have a hard time resisting the urge to thank Jeff himself for this wonderful opportunity he has presented you.
I hope you aren't one of those guys who consider this a recall, because this is actually just preferential hiring at a sh!tty airline.

I will as soon as I get a caill from above mentioned airline, or my construction career takes off, which ever happens first.

So in other words your never leaving.

Never say never.

You just don't get it, Slick. I only have part time employment now. And I know who and what Jeff is. In my opinion, you need wisdom.

Come on over. You can then be part of solution. Every "no" vote is a step towards sanity.

There you go! I like that, we need to all band together and fix this situation. I appreciate the honest and pure hatred of how bad things have become at CAL, and SlickMachine's brutal honesty. It is like how me and 1437 other guys who worked their a**es off to get to United only to be furloughed twice and left for dead feel. We need to stand together here, since we ARE together from here on, and get back what we deserve.
Damn, I feel like William Wallace!

Slick,
I too appreciate your candor. Obviously, your CAL job is better than no job...BUT, there is a huge cost in QOL. Depending on circumstances and expectations, there is a huge range of how good a "deal" this opportunity is.
I can "pay my dues" for a year or two if I believe I will progress upward steadily to a decent career with benefits of seniority, etc...BUT I have gone down that road twice at UAL only to be s#$tcanned and having to start all over. I just don't know how long I could stomach the CAL rules as a commuter.

you'll get it soon enough. don't say I didn't warn you.

Ok if I go to cal at the bottom of the list and then the SLI goes through, now all the people above me get recalled do I get pushed to the street and do I get credit for the service for pay if longevity does not get put in the contract?

First question I think is a definate "No". There can't be recalls unless there are vacancies to fill. Vacancies can be generated through retirements, attrition, improved work rules or growth.

The second question is an unknown. I've asked Ted the furlough coordinator and he did not have an answer to that question. I doubt it happens, but the best outcome for us would be longevity credit for furlough time. I don't see the negotiators giving up anything to achieve that. The second best outcome would be to add the time in service at CAL to whatever time in service you have at UAL for pay purposes. Worst case is you return to where you left off at UAL (assuming your time at CAL is less than your time at UAL).

"Ted"? ;) I spoke with TODD about my situation.
Also, this is NOT a "recall". It's good news for those who need a job though!!!
As far as the seniority, re-furloughed thing, I wouldn't say definitely "NO". I thought of the same situation.

Ted is a furloughed pilot working in HQ as company furlough coordinator (and also the name of a really bad idea for a low cost carrier subsidiary). Todd is paid by ALPA as furlough coordinator. Hopefully, Ted and Todd have similar information! Both have been very helpful answering my questions, too!

How many furloughed UAL pilots going to CAL?
 

Does anyone have any idea what the rate will be on the furloughed UAL pilots who will actually accept a job at CAL? My guess is 20%. Any others?

I would guess 450-500 to get the 186 ? number they are looking for. First class of 12 could go that deep while people watch round one and then jump in.

WE should know more in the next week or so when they start making calls.

Think calls are this week. Start at the top of the list Monday, maybe?

Rumor has it that the first class has all 8 Guam slots are in the first class and that it will take 400 to get the first class filled.

If this is true, then it will pretty much put the 189 voluntary furloughs in a 30+ day by pass cycle. This will also allow more junior guys to come back until the 30 days pass.

It's going to be an interesting and telling week.

FMT

First Class: 8 slots to GUM
 

Be prepared to answer.. First CAL class is going to be 8 out of 12 slots to GUM (As per Ted, UALWHQ). Don't be surprised to get a call next week, if you are 400 down the list.
Bypass or NOt! Will you take it?:confused:

Think they will get some takers in the first 200. To finish filling the first class down to 4-500. People looking for different flying and/or lifestyle, people with no job or a worse job.
Question is how deep they will need to go down the furlough list to fill the last slot 7 months from now.

Good question....

IMHO, some of the later slots will actually go more senior since a certian percentage of pilots that intend to accept the offer --but currently employed-- will wait so they are not at the very, very, very bottom of their fleet/seat/base. There's a big QOL difference between a bottom lineholder and the 8-ball on RSV.

Agree completely. Why I tried to say if you are 4-500 down the list and get a call for the first class it may be your only call to fill the announced hiring.

Yes, that's entirely possible.