Might be. We'll see. The really sad fact is that we're dealing with a company that doesn't understand, or more importantly doesn't care about previous sacrifices, the fact that we have families, and that goodwill has value going forward. The fact that they simply don't care about their workers is testament to the failure that is UCAL - AND IT IS EPIC. There are only a handful of successful airlines in this era of deregulation, and NONE of them treat their employees as UCAL seems intent to do. Jeff's failures will be revealed, and his legacy will be severely tainted for not considering his employees as people first, and laborers next.

FWIW, the decision to take managements "buy-off" of of the CAL pilot group with a partitioned money grab on non-contractual and TPA violating unilaterally negotiated profit sharing directly affects all negotiations going forward. Again, time will tell based on forward movement of the CBA. If they get it done, and quickly, then it might work. If they decide to move forward as they intend, it will be a train wreck. JMHO, of course.

 

Well if you talked to the union leadership today then it must be all true. It is almost funny seeing those two words in the same sentence.

 

Nice....
Come on Syd....Knocking someone who makes the honest effort in attempting to stay infomed by speaking to the appropriate channels (LEC types) during this time.....sweet

What else do you suggest? Hang out on the conjecture littered "Crack-Pipe" such as CALForums (or the look-alike whatever you call it on your end)...How about relying on some of the 'self-righteous' intellect types who reap/'spew' all their "details" as fact here on APC?...Awesome.

I'm sure, contrary to your belief, there are MANY (make that a MAJORITY) of L-CAL Pilots who are flat out pist regarding this announcement yesterday. As recent as late last week, I personally spoke with an IAH-LEC Rep regarding several rumors flying about. I asked the question....."Rumor or truth.....Has the MEC sent JP to negotiate PS? Or have his "rumored" talks w/ Mgt been open dialouge w/o negotiating any present standing items". I was told by this LEC Rep that he was not sent to negotiate.....Well, I think we ALL know that some was "negotiated".

Come Thursday the 5th, I guarantee that JP will have several 'spirited' questions as to "why" this was done, and I anticipate the Town Hall will be anything other than pleasant.

 

If you don't like my post I could care less, I get tired of the well I just talked to union leadership crap. Or I was just at the training center or I just had a lca on the jumpseat. If you don't like it tough luck don't read it. I doubt that it is the majority of cal pilots that feel that way about the announcment, your kidding right was that your informal poll that came up with that statement?

I don't trust cal anymore now that back in the 80's, best of luck, but not interested in any of this anymore, I think it is every man for himself, but hey you guys are used to that.

 

For someone who's "done".....or "not interested in this anymore".....you sure do keep coming back.


From 'what side of the mouth' are you sipp'in the celebratory NYE cocktail??

 

Not sipping will worry about myself just as cal always has, best of luck.

 

This Continental management is doing exactly what they did in 1988-1989 with EAL. Yup, I was there. Nothing they are doing is new. They pit pilot against pilot and will take away L-UAL flying to CO. They will keep going until L-UAL pilot's go on strike or will make them work to CO rules. Only one thing to do but pilots are too stupid and scared to do it.

 

FMT,

I like it! Really you summed up the frustration that many feel. I've been saying all along that we (the company) needs as many of you guys back off furlough as possible...preferably it will be under a combined contract. Until then the CAL side still needs the bodies as evidenced by the two-week junior manning opportunities being offered. Get you guys back to work as some of you I know are suffering. It may not be much better coming back to the CAL work rules.

In regards to LAX, DEN or ORD, yes I would expect that the most junior pilots on the CAL seniority list now (the UAL re-hired furloughs) would be the ones to want those bases as soon as able. I don't blame you and of course was referring to the L-CAL guys when I said no one I have encountered is chomping at the bit for your bases.

I agree that the focus should be on management, not each other, and getting the best possible contract we can so we get all of this behind us.

 

I think it can be justified because the way it was explained it was settled via a CAL CONTRACT GRIEVANCE. This wasn't a T&PA grievance. This grievance resulted from language located within the CAL PILOT CONTRACT...the same contract which does include profit sharing language, albeit with a sunset date.

The issue of profit sharing and the grievance were solved as it relates to the CAL pilot contract. Again, I'm not commenting on the merits of profit sharing as a negotiating tool, but answering how it can be justified from what I believe a lawyer could argue.

You know that last year the CAL pilots won a monetary award in regards to the continued violation of the scope clause when CAL put their code temporarily on flights for sale on some mobile sites? It was a small monetary award in the low five digits, but that too was a grievance born of the CAL contract. If the CAL pilots had settled that for six-figures as an example (instead of the little we got), would the UAL pilots see this as getting something extra too??

If you can find something in your contract that you can use to get more money, then I am all for it...as it relates to your contract.

 

I agree as this has been the plan all along, employee feelings be damned. Yes, they could earn employee good will by caring about the issues Stoops mentioned regarding displacements, commuting and shifting of flying. However, we all know the management at most companies don't answer to employees, they answer to shareholders. Those same shareholders want this merger to be done and successful and not necessarily in that order if the successful part can be quantified with money.

Just take a look at Jeff's "HAPPY NEW YEAR!" message he sent out today. The intentions of the company are very clear with the following: