"UAL doesn't want the competition" of SWA
05-30-2012, 11:21 AM
#21
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Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 767 F/O
Posts: 303
Originally Posted by clouseau
Wow. Quite a message.
Cut capacity 10% in 2012 because of a crosstown international terminal due to open in 2015? Eliminate planned New Zealand service because of a few Mexican/Central American flights three years from now? Would it have been possible to throw any more of a temper tantrum because you didn't get the protection you wanted? I'm wondering how the public will react to this type of attitude/rhetoric.
Cut capacity 10% in 2012 because of a crosstown international terminal due to open in 2015? Eliminate planned New Zealand service because of a few Mexican/Central American flights three years from now? Would it have been possible to throw any more of a temper tantrum because you didn't get the protection you wanted? I'm wondering how the public will react to this type of attitude/rhetoric.
05-30-2012, 03:40 PM
#22
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Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: 737 Captain
Posts: 374
Originally Posted by Pilotbiffster
That's exactly what it is .. a temper tantrum. They'll probably move the flying to Denver since we just penned a deal there with the city to increase flying in exchange for lower rent. Seriously, how many people going to Auckland would be "diverted" by Southwest operations in Hobby? Pulling the stops on the terminal B expansion has to hurt the city council just a bit though.
06-01-2012, 02:22 PM
#23
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
"United Daily" (June 1st, 2012)
Why competition in 2015 means cuts at IAH in 2012
Throughout the debate on the development of HOU (Hobby-Houston) as an international airport, United has made the point that a competing international airport at HOU would result in a diversion of passengers we carry today to Hobby.
This would drive a reduction of 1,300 jobs at United and our partner airlines at IAH (roughly 800 jobs today and 500 jobs in the future). We expect to begin a 10 percent reduction in planned IAH capacity beginning with the fall 2012 schedule change.
Some of you have asked, “Why so soon, if Southwest does not intend to fly international flights out of HOU until 2015?”
Here’s why: There is a segment of our operation at IAH that is not profitable today. We have operated these flights expecting that future growth will improve the routes and make them profitable. As a result of the city’s decision to develop HOU as a competing international airport, the growth will not occur and, as a result, we will cut unprofitable flying in our schedule now rather than continue to lose money with no expectation of improvement.
“These are the kind of tough decisions we make every day,” said Network SVP Greg Hart. “We have a responsibility to our investors and all of our employees to invest where we have the best opportunity of generating profits.”
The changes would reduce current capacity at IAH by about 6 percent with reductions planned for several domestic and international markets. The other 4 percent of the 10 percent reduction in planned capacity will come as a result of not starting service that was part of our longer-term plan for IAH. A competing international airport will have a material impact on the long-term profitability of IAH and the planned-for growth won’t generate the necessary profits to justify the investment in the flying.
Throughout the debate on the development of HOU (Hobby-Houston) as an international airport, United has made the point that a competing international airport at HOU would result in a diversion of passengers we carry today to Hobby.
This would drive a reduction of 1,300 jobs at United and our partner airlines at IAH (roughly 800 jobs today and 500 jobs in the future). We expect to begin a 10 percent reduction in planned IAH capacity beginning with the fall 2012 schedule change.
Some of you have asked, “Why so soon, if Southwest does not intend to fly international flights out of HOU until 2015?”
Here’s why: There is a segment of our operation at IAH that is not profitable today. We have operated these flights expecting that future growth will improve the routes and make them profitable. As a result of the city’s decision to develop HOU as a competing international airport, the growth will not occur and, as a result, we will cut unprofitable flying in our schedule now rather than continue to lose money with no expectation of improvement.
“These are the kind of tough decisions we make every day,” said Network SVP Greg Hart. “We have a responsibility to our investors and all of our employees to invest where we have the best opportunity of generating profits.”
The changes would reduce current capacity at IAH by about 6 percent with reductions planned for several domestic and international markets. The other 4 percent of the 10 percent reduction in planned capacity will come as a result of not starting service that was part of our longer-term plan for IAH. A competing international airport will have a material impact on the long-term profitability of IAH and the planned-for growth won’t generate the necessary profits to justify the investment in the flying.
06-01-2012, 03:18 PM
#24
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: IAH 737 CA
Posts: 690
Originally Posted by SoCalGuy
Why competition in 2015 means cuts at IAH in 2012
Throughout the debate on the development of HOU (Hobby-Houston) as an international airport, United has made the point that a competing international airport at HOU would result in a diversion of passengers we carry today to Hobby.
This would drive a reduction of 1,300 jobs at United and our partner airlines at IAH (roughly 800 jobs today and 500 jobs in the future). We expect to begin a 10 percent reduction in planned IAH capacity beginning with the fall 2012 schedule change.
Some of you have asked, “Why so soon, if Southwest does not intend to fly international flights out of HOU until 2015?”
Here’s why: There is a segment of our operation at IAH that is not profitable today. We have operated these flights expecting that future growth will improve the routes and make them profitable. As a result of the city’s decision to develop HOU as a competing international airport, the growth will not occur and, as a result, we will cut unprofitable flying in our schedule now rather than continue to lose money with no expectation of improvement.
“These are the kind of tough decisions we make every day,” said Network SVP Greg Hart. “We have a responsibility to our investors and all of our employees to invest where we have the best opportunity of generating profits.”
The changes would reduce current capacity at IAH by about 6 percent with reductions planned for several domestic and international markets. The other 4 percent of the 10 percent reduction in planned capacity will come as a result of not starting service that was part of our longer-term plan for IAH. A competing international airport will have a material impact on the long-term profitability of IAH and the planned-for growth won’t generate the necessary profits to justify the investment in the flying.
Throughout the debate on the development of HOU (Hobby-Houston) as an international airport, United has made the point that a competing international airport at HOU would result in a diversion of passengers we carry today to Hobby.
This would drive a reduction of 1,300 jobs at United and our partner airlines at IAH (roughly 800 jobs today and 500 jobs in the future). We expect to begin a 10 percent reduction in planned IAH capacity beginning with the fall 2012 schedule change.
Some of you have asked, “Why so soon, if Southwest does not intend to fly international flights out of HOU until 2015?”
Here’s why: There is a segment of our operation at IAH that is not profitable today. We have operated these flights expecting that future growth will improve the routes and make them profitable. As a result of the city’s decision to develop HOU as a competing international airport, the growth will not occur and, as a result, we will cut unprofitable flying in our schedule now rather than continue to lose money with no expectation of improvement.
“These are the kind of tough decisions we make every day,” said Network SVP Greg Hart. “We have a responsibility to our investors and all of our employees to invest where we have the best opportunity of generating profits.”
The changes would reduce current capacity at IAH by about 6 percent with reductions planned for several domestic and international markets. The other 4 percent of the 10 percent reduction in planned capacity will come as a result of not starting service that was part of our longer-term plan for IAH. A competing international airport will have a material impact on the long-term profitability of IAH and the planned-for growth won’t generate the necessary profits to justify the investment in the flying.
Surprised they don't want to throw some more RJ's at the problem.
06-08-2012, 09:23 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: A320/A319/B737 Sys Acft Maint Controller
Posts: 303
missing the POINT!!
Originally Posted by APC225
USA Today (May 24, 2012) Domestic giant Southwest sticks nose into international air
The airline is picking up AirTran's flights to Mexico and the Caribbean after buying its rival last year. It's getting a new reservations system to handle overseas bookings and is seeking to build an international terminal at Houston's Hobby Airport, where it says it could ultimately add 25 flights abroad a day.
The airline also is seeking approval from Houston's city council to build a five-gate international terminal at Hobby Airport, whose private flights are the only ones that go to foreign destinations. The city's mayor, Annise Parker, announced her support for the terminal on Wednesday. Federal aviation officials will also have to give their OK.
Southwest would like to open the terminal, which would cost $100 million to $125 million, by 2015. It envisions it as the launching point for flights into Central and South America in addition to Mexico and the Caribbean.
A report commissioned by the Houston Airport System determined that the new portal would bring in an extra 1.5 million passengers annually, lead to 10,000 jobs for the Houston area, and amount to an economic benefit of $1.6 billion a year.
"The report projects that opening Hobby to international service would create a more competitive landscape" and lower fares, Houston Airport System's aviation director Mario Diaz wrote in a memo to Mayor Parker that supports the new terminal .
Plans were for the council to take up the matter by the end of May, said mayoral spokeswoman Janice Evans.
United, the biggest of the network carriers and which counts Houston's larger Bush Intercontinental Airport as its biggest hub, is not on board with Southwest's plan to turn Hobby into its international launch pad.
United flies the majority of passengers headed to foreign destinations from Houston. And it says its own study found that the proposed terminal at Hobby would result in the area taking an economic hit.
"Dividing the air service between the two airports … will mean that Houston is competing with itself for international connecting traffic rather than competing with very successful cities that have one international airport, like Atlanta and Dallas," says United spokeswoman Mary Clark. "We believe it will result in a loss of jobs and also there will be an economic loss for the city of Houston."
Clark says there is room for Southwest at Bush Intercontinental.
Southwest's Jordan counters that United is concerned about itself rather than the community.
"United Airlines doesn't want the competition," he says. "We're asking to bring more flights, and lower fares for the people of Houston, and bring in the economic benefits that come from that."
Full article: Domestic giant Southwest sticks nose into international air - USATODAY.com
The airline is picking up AirTran's flights to Mexico and the Caribbean after buying its rival last year. It's getting a new reservations system to handle overseas bookings and is seeking to build an international terminal at Houston's Hobby Airport, where it says it could ultimately add 25 flights abroad a day.
The airline also is seeking approval from Houston's city council to build a five-gate international terminal at Hobby Airport, whose private flights are the only ones that go to foreign destinations. The city's mayor, Annise Parker, announced her support for the terminal on Wednesday. Federal aviation officials will also have to give their OK.
Southwest would like to open the terminal, which would cost $100 million to $125 million, by 2015. It envisions it as the launching point for flights into Central and South America in addition to Mexico and the Caribbean.
A report commissioned by the Houston Airport System determined that the new portal would bring in an extra 1.5 million passengers annually, lead to 10,000 jobs for the Houston area, and amount to an economic benefit of $1.6 billion a year.
"The report projects that opening Hobby to international service would create a more competitive landscape" and lower fares, Houston Airport System's aviation director Mario Diaz wrote in a memo to Mayor Parker that supports the new terminal .
Plans were for the council to take up the matter by the end of May, said mayoral spokeswoman Janice Evans.
United, the biggest of the network carriers and which counts Houston's larger Bush Intercontinental Airport as its biggest hub, is not on board with Southwest's plan to turn Hobby into its international launch pad.
United flies the majority of passengers headed to foreign destinations from Houston. And it says its own study found that the proposed terminal at Hobby would result in the area taking an economic hit.
"Dividing the air service between the two airports … will mean that Houston is competing with itself for international connecting traffic rather than competing with very successful cities that have one international airport, like Atlanta and Dallas," says United spokeswoman Mary Clark. "We believe it will result in a loss of jobs and also there will be an economic loss for the city of Houston."
Clark says there is room for Southwest at Bush Intercontinental.
Southwest's Jordan counters that United is concerned about itself rather than the community.
"United Airlines doesn't want the competition," he says. "We're asking to bring more flights, and lower fares for the people of Houston, and bring in the economic benefits that come from that."
Full article: Domestic giant Southwest sticks nose into international air - USATODAY.com
I think Houston is missing the point!! Since the Merger the City has been "carping and Whining" about the headquarters NOT being in Houston. We have Not only the mexico flights that southwest wants to compete on,
BUT LIM, EZE,GIG, GRU,LHR,CDG,NRT,etc that UAL flies as well. United could care LESS about southwest. But!! Why would they Want or AGREE to spend $600M on infrastructure improvements at IAH if the revenue base is going to be DILUTED and NOT strengthen the IAH effort?? I'd raise Holy Hell as Well!! Then Not only would I CANCEL the $600M in improvements to IAH I'd ONLY spend money on that which ONLY DIRECTLY benefitted UAL and let IAH and the city whistle up "Dry River" for the REST!!
Ual has already comitted to $60M which they can't get out of. But Beyond THAT?? Not one DIME Unless UAL got something FOR IT!! Stab UAL in the back?? There'd be no END to what I'd do to "Mess over" IAH and Houston. what are they going to DO?? Ask us to LEAVE??
06-08-2012, 10:47 AM
#26
HOSED BY PBS AGAIN
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,713
Originally Posted by strfyr51
************************************************** **************
I think Houston is missing the point!! Since the Merger the City has been "carping and Whining" about the headquarters NOT being in Houston. We have Not only the mexico flights that southwest wants to compete on,
BUT LIM, EZE,GIG, GRU,LHR,CDG,NRT,etc that UAL flies as well. United could care LESS about southwest. But!! Why would they Want or AGREE to spend $600M on infrastructure improvements at IAH if the revenue base is going to be DILUTED and NOT strengthen the IAH effort?? I'd raise Holy Hell as Well!! Then Not only would I CANCEL the $600M in improvements to IAH I'd ONLY spend money on that which ONLY DIRECTLY benefitted UAL and let IAH and the city whistle up "Dry River" for the REST!!
Ual has already comitted to $60M which they can't get out of. But Beyond THAT?? Not one DIME Unless UAL got something FOR IT!! Stab UAL in the back?? There'd be no END to what I'd do to "Mess over" IAH and Houston. what are they going to DO?? Ask us to LEAVE??
I think Houston is missing the point!! Since the Merger the City has been "carping and Whining" about the headquarters NOT being in Houston. We have Not only the mexico flights that southwest wants to compete on,
BUT LIM, EZE,GIG, GRU,LHR,CDG,NRT,etc that UAL flies as well. United could care LESS about southwest. But!! Why would they Want or AGREE to spend $600M on infrastructure improvements at IAH if the revenue base is going to be DILUTED and NOT strengthen the IAH effort?? I'd raise Holy Hell as Well!! Then Not only would I CANCEL the $600M in improvements to IAH I'd ONLY spend money on that which ONLY DIRECTLY benefitted UAL and let IAH and the city whistle up "Dry River" for the REST!!
Ual has already comitted to $60M which they can't get out of. But Beyond THAT?? Not one DIME Unless UAL got something FOR IT!! Stab UAL in the back?? There'd be no END to what I'd do to "Mess over" IAH and Houston. what are they going to DO?? Ask us to LEAVE??
06-08-2012, 01:36 PM
#27
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by strfyr51
************************************************** **************
We have Not only the mexico flights that southwest wants to compete on,
BUT LIM, EZE,GIG, GRU,LHR,CDG,NRT,etc that UAL flies as well. United could care LESS about southwest.
We have Not only the mexico flights that southwest wants to compete on,
BUT LIM, EZE,GIG, GRU,LHR,CDG,NRT,etc that UAL flies as well. United could care LESS about southwest.
Originally Posted by strfyr51
************************************************** **************
There'd be no END to what I'd do to "Mess over" IAH and Houston. what are they going to DO?? Ask us to LEAVE??
There'd be no END to what I'd do to "Mess over" IAH and Houston. what are they going to DO?? Ask us to LEAVE??
To me, this is more "temper tantrum" speak. Maybe if United "Messes over" IAH enough they'll decide to leave. I'm pretty sure IAH won't close if United were to depart.
Perhaps a bit of perspective is in order?? If Southwest doesn't interline, what's the benefit to United of them going to IAH? Aside from Killing some kiitens in NW Houston, what's the difference?
06-09-2012, 03:22 PM
#28
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Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 777
Posts: 2,158
From the UAL side, we haven't competed since the Shuttle close. They don't remmeber how to, and yes, we are that incompetant.
Next excuse I expect to hear from UCH negotiators? The dog ate my homework??
Maybe it's time to throw some temper tantrums, uhhh,... that's if I was a motivated co-worker....
Next excuse I expect to hear from UCH negotiators? The dog ate my homework??
Maybe it's time to throw some temper tantrums, uhhh,... that's if I was a motivated co-worker....
06-09-2012, 06:39 PM
#29
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Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: A320/A319/B737 Sys Acft Maint Controller
Posts: 303
Originally Posted by SoCalGuy
And Jeff had the balls to ask his "co-workers" to support this issue to KeepIAHStrong, but Jeff NEVER showed up in Houston (in person) to support it on VOTE DAY?!?!
Talk about lack of leadership!!!
Jeff....You must wear your ID-10-T button with pride.
Hobby expansion passes; Southwest wins fight with United | khou.com Houston
"Continental has done great things for this city," said Councilmember Andrew Burks. "On the other hand, United is new to this city."
Employees of both airlines, wearing colorful shirts that council members could see across the room, have packed city council chambers for weeks now. Southwest CEO Mark Kelly has sat on the front row of the council’s spectator section, leading some council members to question why United CEO Jeff Smisek never dropped by.
Talk about lack of leadership!!!
Jeff....You must wear your ID-10-T button with pride.
Hobby expansion passes; Southwest wins fight with United | khou.com Houston
"Continental has done great things for this city," said Councilmember Andrew Burks. "On the other hand, United is new to this city."
Employees of both airlines, wearing colorful shirts that council members could see across the room, have packed city council chambers for weeks now. Southwest CEO Mark Kelly has sat on the front row of the council’s spectator section, leading some council members to question why United CEO Jeff Smisek never dropped by.
Not that I'm a Big FAN of Jeff's.. BUT!! WHY??? would Be or ANY OTHER Airline's CEO take a "Summons" from the Mayor of Houston??
To be Scolded like a Child No Less??
Were I the CEO?? I'd have to her to "Bite it" as well ..
And would go further than Jeff has gone and Do it in their FACE to Boot!
This is Business!! UAL OWES NOTHING to Houston. Especially with 9 OTHER Hubs that Do want us there. Houston might have been a "Big deal" to CAL because that's pretty much all they Had west of EWR. But that's NOT the case with United having IAD, EWR, CLE,ORD, DEN, SFO, LAX HNL and NRT.. IAH is important TO UAL, But NO LONGER "Premier".
And for them to Act like they're ""ALL THAT??"" Looks like a BAD Strategy to me..
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