tsquare

Why do you say this? Since there is no directly comparable sized airframe to the 757, what do you believe the company would replace them with? 767s? By default it HAS to be a smaller airframe. I am just curious as to why you think this is a F up..

SpecialTracking

It's only pay banding if we vote for it.

cadetdrivr

If you actually read the TPA carefully you'll know the answer (hint: the parts that deal with this are not the that can expire), but just to keep things really simple here's what co-worker jeff said on his interweb update:
But here's the kicker: these airplanes don't arrive until late 2013. Did he let slip that he is not anticipating a JCBA by then? Shouldn't there just be UNITED by late 2013 and not L-UAL and S-CAL?

Ottopilot

You guys dont' get it.

The 737-900 is the exact same size as a 757-200.

Same fuselage and same seats.

Lighter and less power = less money to operate.

More money for the company = more money for my raise.

JetPilotMike

That IS the problem! They aren't banded on the sUAL side (who's 757's they are replacing), they aren't banded at DAL. The 757 pays more than a 737-9. So unless they are banded on the JCBA, which the shouldn't be anyways, we'll be flying around in a few hundred of the lesser paying aircraft. But I expected nothing else from a CAL CEO who ran a mostly 737 airline who pays himself north of $13 million a year.

Plus have I mentioned how the 737 cockpit sucks? I'm sure Boeing isn't going to give one more inch up there in there new MAX.

Take Priority

Letter 00-13 Page 391
UNITED AIRLINES REWRITE 2003 ALPA
Let ter 00-13 New Equipment Formula
UNITED AIRLINES
Captain F.C. Dubinsky, Chairman
UAL-MEC
Air Line Pilots Association
6400 Shafer Court, Suite 700
Rosemont, IL 60018
Dear Captain Dubinsky:
During the negotiations which led to the 2000 Agreement, the parties agreed to the
following provisions pertaining to the introduction of new equipment:
1. The provisions of the Agreement apply only to the aircraft types and aircraft series
which are currently operated by United or on order by United, which include:
2. In the event United intends to operate any equipment type or series with a speed of
.95M or below, and with a UAL certificated maximum takeoff weight (MTW) of less
than one million pounds which is not included above, the Association and the
Company will begin negotiating rates of pay and working conditions for such new
equipment as soon as orders have been placed and delivery dates have been
established, or earlier by mutual agreement.
3. During these new equipment negotiations, United will be free to bid vacancies, train
pilots and prepare, in accordance with the terms of the Agreement, for orderly
introduction of the new equipment into service. If the parties are not successful in
reaching an agreement by the date United plans to introduce the new equipment, the
new equipment will be flown in revenue service under Section 5 of the Agreement or
under Section 22-E, whichever is applicable.
4. Until final agreement is reached, pilots will fly the new equipment under the
following interim hourly rates. The new equipment pay rates will be established as
follows:
4-a If the maximum takeoff weight (MTW) of the new equipment is less than
590,000 pounds, the hourly rate for captains and first officers will be:
(P1 - P0) (MTW-117) / 473 + P0
Where MTW is the maximum takeoff weight (MTW) of the new equipment, P0 is the
B737-200 hourly rate corresponding to the pilot's position and year of longevity,
and P1 is the B777 hourly rate for the pilot's position and year of longevity;
B747-400 B757-200
B747-200 A320
B777-200 A319
DC-10 B727-200
DC-10F B737-500
B767-300 B737-300
B767-200 B737-200
Page 392 Letter 00-13
UNITED AIRLINES REWRITE 2003 ALPA
provided, however, no pilot who flies a B737 aircraft not listed above will maintain
an hourly rate less than the hourly rate established by the Agreement for B737-200
aircraft.
4-b If the MTW of the new equipment is 590,000 pounds or greater, the hourly rate
for captains and first officers will be:
(P2 - P1) (MTW-590) / 285 + P1
Where MTW is the maximum takeoff weight (MTW) of the new equipment, P1 is the
B777 hourly rate for the pilot's position and year of longevity, and P2 is the B747-
400 hourly rate for the pilot's position and year of longevity.
4-c If the new equipment requires a minimum crew of 3 pilots, the hourly new
equipment rate for any second officer on that equipment will be equal to the
following:
1st year equals 1st year first officer rate for that equipment
Thereafter the second officer rate will be equal to a percentage of the rate for
captains on that equipment according to the following:
5. In the event, any Company aircraft listed above is re-certified resulting in an
increased MTW of 10,000 pounds or more, the appropriate new equipment formula
above will be applied to establish new hourly rates for that aircraft. The new rates will
become effective the first of the month following the re-certification of the MTW.
If this accurately reflects our understanding, please sign and return two (2) copies for
our files.
Sincerely,
/s/ William P. Hobgood
William P. Hobgood
Senior Vice President
People
Accepted and agreed to this 26th day of October, 2000
/s/ F.C. Dubinsky
Captain F. C. Dubinsky, Chairman
UAL-MEC Air Line Pilots Association
2nd year = 32.0 percent of 2nd year captain rate
3rd year = 42.1 percent of 3rd year captain rate
4th year = 52.1 percent of 4th year captain rate
5th year = 53.1 percent of 5th year captain rate
6th year = 54.0 percent of 6th year captain rate
7th year = 54.6 percent of 7th year captain rate
8th year = 54.7 percent of 8th year captain rate
9th year = 54.8 percent of 9th year captain rate
10th year = 54.8 percent of 10th year captain rate
11th year = 54.8 percent of 11th year captain rate
12th year = 54.8 percent of 12th year captain rate
Letter 00-16 Page 393
UNITED AIRLINES REWRITE 2003 ALPA

Monkeyfly

Ok, by my math this adds approx $8/hr to 12th year capt pay for the 737-900ER vs. old 737 pay, if it's "operated by UA subsidiary".

Thats $15/hr less than UA757 pay and $25/hr less than CO-LN pay.

Which, according to Jeff's words, we can still be expected to be paid when these come online.

gettinbumped

Not sure the 757 config at sCAL, but at sUAL they are 24/158 with economy plus. I think the 900 is about 12 seats short is it not?

Ottopilot

20/153

Although some may be losing a row for UAL economy plus

horrido27

CD-
I have read the TPA a few times.. and the problem is, I'm not a lawyer and am confused with what Section 4-C. Aircraft, states.
On one hand, it points to Exhibit A with regards to current aircraft, ordered aircraft AND options of aircraft.
The 73-9's fall under the sCAL Option Category!
Then there is also subpart iii, which lists what aircraft each side flies with regards to adding aircraft not previously listed.. if they are replacement aircraft.

SO, you have 737 options on the sCAL side that are also being touted as sUAL 75-2 replacements.
A can of worms~

Oh, and you are right.. Jeffrey kind of makes the point that we will be separate for the foreseeable future.

Motch