jsled

Not sure that's the way, but your 2nd paragraph is the EXACT problem I am talking about. Thanks.

Sled

SOTeric

But expect a staple job?!

KMA

Coto Pilot

When I suggested date of hire it was done to let others know how the other unioned work groups have or will be doing it at this company, in this merger. I don't have the expectation of receiving it. As you mention, ALPA now limits the criteria to category and status, longevity and career expectations. A furloughed pilots category and status will obviously be a factor, but longevity and career expectations aren't altered by a the fact that one is not on the property at the time of the merger. Determining the time of the merger and the viability of the companies wirhout the merger will all be interesting discussions. Jeff is on record saying that Continental would not continue to exist without it. The furloughed pilots requested, but were denied a seat at the table in the merger negotiations. At the time ALPA did not have a legal obligation to represent us, now that we are again dues paying members they do. Before they could use the argument that we did the best that we could, now they can't, they have "the duty to fair representation". Listening to pilot after pilot at legacy Continental comment that United furloughees are going to get stapled gets a little old. This group has been kicked in the teeth by our employer as well as our union brothers to many times, all I am saying is this time we will kick back.

Lerxst

Fair points , Coto. One small contextual correction, though. Smizek's comment to the DOJ about CAL not having the economy of scale to survive were related as a possible outcome of a merger of USair and UAL.

Tilton is also on record stating that the 94 737's and 6 747's were parked due to increasing fuel costs with no mention of "right sizing" for a merger.

If you're gonna quote one CEO, you better be ready to balance the other as well. Or, we can just ignore both with the understanding that their comments are always tailored to an intended audience desiring a specific outcome.

Zoomie

I'll re-engage for a moment.

One could also argue that when Smeagle made those comments, he also had the promise of a $13 million paycheck. One can not believe anything either CEO says, they are both biased to their own well being.

"Right sizing" and working a deal with each other prior to merger would also be considered "collusion." I think you'll have a tough time proving that one in an SLI hearing since if it were true, all of our competitors would like to gain the transcripts and then sue the new UAL for a whole lot of money and routes with that proof.

B727gypsy

Sled,

I agree that it might not be the way. I was always intrigued with the concept because it preserved relative position both now and at retirement.

No matter, it will all be up to the arbitrator in the long run.

B

SlickMachine

Right now, you have much higher career expectations at the bottom of the Continental active pilot list than you do at the bottom of the UAL furloughed list. The simple fact is that one position has you earning money, retirement health benefits etc, while the other has you as a stay-at-home dad or in some other career (hopefully) guessing how far into your forties you will be before you can return to the beloved mother ship. How many years have to pass by on furlough before a UAL furloughee realizes his United Airlines aviation career is actually rather limp and non-existent, and consequently so are his expectations? To be clear, i wish no one was on the street. For arguments sake, I refused to even consider United Airlines for employment when i was ready to move on in 2007, because of the sad shape the company was in, both financially and from the standpoint of morale and earnings. I lived in a UAL base, I didn't want to move, but Continental was a far better choice in terms of career expectations, earnings, and seat advancement,as horrible and disgusting as I find it here. I am MILES AND MILES ahead of where I would have been had I got on at UAL in 2007 when I was hired here at CAL, again, which I really hate. Although on the other hand, a furlough would have forced me into another line of work perhaps much better than this one, which I heavily regret getting into to begin with...

47dog

Hey Zoomie,
You sound like the typical scab CAL I fly with, all about you baby.

skippy

Slick,

id rather be furloughed from ual than having a similar DOH (10/07) at cal. I assure u with the same date of hire, my career expectations are still better and worth more $ than at cal. I was lucky to find a jet charter job and able to maintain salarywise what i wouldve made longevitywise at ual.. Getting furloughed was the best thing financially , united airlines did for me.

ChrisJT6

A SLI hearing would be obviously different than a criminal court proceeding and no requirement to meet burden of proof but we will have a large proponderance of evidence which will be hard explain away as to why UAL furloughed 1000% more pilots than any other legacy carrier in similar situations...there was no "deal" made, it was UAL management unilaterlly moving to expedite a merger partner period. The overwhelming onesided redundancy measures is obvious to unbias observers and hopefully will be fixed before we make a bunch of attorney friends of Jeff richer.