Most of the guys I fly with are of that opinion, tailwheel. They think the UAL MEC and the UAL pilots will accept anything that comes their way due to big pay raises mainly. Since United already allows 70-ish seat small-jets, most guys I fly with are of the opinion UAL pilots have nothing to lose so take the offer and run.

Again, that is THEIR opinion, but I personally feel both pilot groups as a whole know what is at stake regarding scope, pay, work rules, etc. in the entirety. No pilot group has been more affected by outsourcing than the L-UAL pilots. I doubt they'll accept anything put in front of them.

That's speaking from a position of juniority. History has shown though that juniority is adversely impacted by the views of seniority. Hopefully, I'm wrong in this statement this time.

 

That too. Either way it's going to take us to a new level of a messed up merger.

 

[QUOTE=Airhoss;1275196]15 year Jr F/O on reserve here.



dvhighdrive88,

First off, who do you work for? Second you've completely and totally missed the point. It's not about shifting stuff around and making changes. It's about one side, L-UAL, being decimated and the other side growing in leaps and bounds.

It about the L-CAL side having growth and movement and the L-UAL side being stuck in perpetual stagnation. Since I was surplussed to the right seat 2.5 years ago I've not moved up one single solitary number in fact I've slid back 3 numbers on my fleet and seat. That is with 15 working on 16 years of seniority.
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I'm sorry as hell about that Hoss. Truly if we were standing face to face I would like to implore upon you how crappy a situation I find this to be. I personally vehemently despise the hardships the 2172 and 1437 have been through. It is gut wrenching to hear the stories over and over and to have lived my own-each a sad and difficult road traveled with a ruined career as a companion.

But there is only one way forward people and that is together. That is a fetid cliche I give you but it is the truth. Another worn out cliche is the truth shall set you free and the truth here is that both groups rolled the dice and we lost. We gambled on United and we turned up snake eyes.

So there it is. How now brown cow? I see as our best chances to let go of this painful time and engage real catharsis as pushing forward with the new agenda of recovery in this profession. As nauseatingly comfortable and seductive as self pity and morbid reflection can be for what has happened, one of the few lights I see ahead in this tunnel is the possibility that through unification we as a combined United pilot group can make great leaps forward in the coming years. I firmly believe tangible gains in our QOL and the value of our profession is possible if handled right by us. I haven't great concern for the trials and tribulation or the difficulties this career will deal us in the future for I also understand the truth that it will come again no matter my level of preparation. The truth is also that the opponents to our gains as a group have as much a passion for their craft as do I. I accept it and expend little energy hand wringing about what their plans may be.

So here we are. The truth is there and it is naked in the open. So how forward? How do we deal with this change to United and yet advance our cause while continuing to provide the safest and most efficient airline industry on the planet? Perhaps some may call that "rolling over" but I find the possibilities of the future far more consoling than the suffocating memories since 9/11.

 

This is a load of fertilizer. A big pay raise would be Contract 2000 wages adjusted for inflation and COLA. As it now stands, even at DAL rates, we're taking it in the shorts and still have everything to lose. There are a significant number of hyper senior pilots flying the left seat of the bus who could hold the left seat of the 67. IF the buses (and probably a mess of guppies) were parked due to a huge "give" in the scope section those Captains would matriculate to the left seat of 67s. The more junior Bus Captains would head for the right seat of the 67,77 and 400 displacing a HUGE number of senior F/Os. Don't forget that there are roughly 3-4 F/O's per Captain due to the bunkie requirement for long range flights. It would absolutely create havoc for the bottom 70ish percent of the airline (sUAL).

The only guys who want to take the money and run are some among the hyper senior crowd (soon to retire) and a handful of spineless Marvins. More and more of the guys I fly with are getting their axe handles ready.

Things are looking very bleak if you ask me. IF the TA is a turd this place ought to implode. There's your happy thought for the day.

**I'm doing my best to not paint the CAL guys with a broad brush because it's destructive and only furthers El Heffe's cause. So I will highlight when the tables are turned.

 

So you ARE a UAL guy. Thanks dvhighdrive88.

 

Thast funny oldmako as I am hearing the opposite. That many of the junior guys are ready to jump at anything to get a raise. I guess I am noy hyper senior but have not heard one guy around my seniority talk about jumping at anything but again have heard some that are junior and maybe need the money talk like this is already ratified and how much they are looking forward to it.

 

For a United pilot who was hired in 99,2000,2001 etc that is at CAL on their old United pay, there is no raise with a new CBA. You're still a new hire and won't see any benefit pay wise from a new contract until you're technically recalled by United or the seniority list is integrated. Until then you're just a new hire. So lets say a United furloughee is at CAL making $82/hr, they won't see a raise until their second year at 2nd yr FO pay on the new CBA. That is messed up! They are at the new United and getting no longevity credit for the 4, 5, or 6 years they've already worked for Legacy United. This should be addressed and amended by the MEC's. Otherwise, any furloughed United pilot at CAL other than those that were still on first year pay should definitely vote NO on a new CBA no matter what the pay rates. Those furloughed United Pilots on 1st year pay will definitely benefit from the new CBA but that's it. Once again, new hire's at CAL directly affect the recall of United Pilots!!! If I'm wrong correct me...I'd love to be wrong but I don't think I am! Under the current situation, a junior United pilot who hits his 2nd year at CAL with a new CBA let's say making $100/hr will be making more than a United pilot who is senior to him that bypassed and is at their old 6yr A320 pay until year 2 at CAL. Again, completely messed up!!!

 

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Billy Madison

 

Not sure what you're saying, but,

"TPA 7.B.(i). Such Pilot will be paid the greater of (1) the actual hourly pay rate he was receiving on the date of his furlough, or (2) the hourly pay rate to which his years of service at the employing Airline otherwise entitles."

And we don't know what the new contract will say on the issue of UAL pilots at CAL yet. It would seem a UAL pilot at CAL would get credit for his time at UAL plus his time at CAL to enter the new pay table at.

 

I had to re-read it, and figure out a possible scene, but I see what he is saying. In his example, if a UAL pilot takes the job at CAL, s/he will be making $82/hr (previous pay at UAL). Then the CBA comes along, and year 2 pay goes to $100/hr. The UAL pilot has to wait until s/he has been at CAL (the new UAL) two years until seeing that $90/hr unless something is put in the CBA for longevity (Until the ISL comes along)... NO?