Enough Already!
11-19-2012, 04:43 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Posts: 222
Are you actually a United Air Lines pilot?
Originally Posted by Sunvox
I'm at work at the Double Tree SFO bar on my iPhone, and I just can't stand it. I wish Unicorn's were real and cheeseburgers were healthy but the reality is we live in a world of cut throat competition. I get the fact that CAL pilots suddenly feel like king of the hill and expect to be treated as such and I get that UAL '99 hires feel wronged , BUT that does not excuse the gross misrepresentations flooding this forum. There are a few minor "turds" but overall this contract is industry leading and that's a fact. Pick any single issue and I will do my best to respond.
Pay: no meaningful difference when viewed by the general public especially if you look at profit sharing.
Retro: Largest retro award in history. Bankruptcy exit is paid in equity and is a whole different animal.
Scope: by far the most misunderstood aspect. Delta and United already gave this one away but the scope provisions are TIGHTER now than previously. Period. If you want to argue this you need to start by answering the question how many 70 seat Q400s are allowed under the current contract and how many are allowed if the TA passes.
Joe Peck
IADFO
Pay: no meaningful difference when viewed by the general public especially if you look at profit sharing.
Retro: Largest retro award in history. Bankruptcy exit is paid in equity and is a whole different animal.
Scope: by far the most misunderstood aspect. Delta and United already gave this one away but the scope provisions are TIGHTER now than previously. Period. If you want to argue this you need to start by answering the question how many 70 seat Q400s are allowed under the current contract and how many are allowed if the TA passes.
Joe Peck
IADFO
11-19-2012, 05:27 AM
#13
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Joined APC: Feb 2012
Posts: 222
Originally Posted by uaav8r
Dude...he gave you his name and domicile. Are you?
What I see is too many UAL guys giving up on industry leading and saying "standard" is okay, live to fight another day, etc. if this TA is voted yes, I will immediately gain at least $30 per hour and then at least another $10 per hour after SLI...that is right at a 50% increase for me. Do I need the money...yes. Will I vote NO...YES. This group needs to grow a set and vote for what is right...NOW...not later.
And yes, I am a UAL pilot...twice furloughed working on the CAL side of the house, where they apparently have more unionist who don't want a crappy TA than UAL has right now.
Regards,
Terry Hayes
DCA FO (furloughed twice)
IAH FO (working for peanuts)
11-19-2012, 07:49 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 138
Originally Posted by Sunvox
Pay: no meaningful difference when viewed by the general public especially if you look at profit sharing.
Retro: Largest retro award in history. Bankruptcy exit is paid in equity and is a whole different animal.
How many TAs have the Cal/UAL pilots voted down? How much Retro did you get?
I always thought major airline pilots were the ones who stood up and fought, not caved and crawled away.
Quit the whining. Fight.
11-19-2012, 09:18 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
Quick word on scope:
It's all about the new ratio limit. 550 rjs are at 112% they quickly get to 120% with only a couple new planes. No one wants more 50 seaters so the company is interested in 70/76 seaters but the only way to add them and not go over the 120% ratio is by retiring 50 seaters which is obviously already happening industry wide as well as at UAL. Then once the company goes over 153 70/76ers the ratio begins to tighten even more unless they buy the 90 seater and fly it with UAL.
It's a major get that no one understands or is explaining properly. IT'S HUGE. The company has every incentive in the world to go out and buy the 90 to rationalize the future growth of the 70 seater it's their only option.
The dude who threw out the 743 number was ignoring the fact that UAX is already close to the capped ratio and can only increase by exchange.
It's all about the new ratio limit. 550 rjs are at 112% they quickly get to 120% with only a couple new planes. No one wants more 50 seaters so the company is interested in 70/76 seaters but the only way to add them and not go over the 120% ratio is by retiring 50 seaters which is obviously already happening industry wide as well as at UAL. Then once the company goes over 153 70/76ers the ratio begins to tighten even more unless they buy the 90 seater and fly it with UAL.
It's a major get that no one understands or is explaining properly. IT'S HUGE. The company has every incentive in the world to go out and buy the 90 to rationalize the future growth of the 70 seater it's their only option.
The dude who threw out the 743 number was ignoring the fact that UAX is already close to the capped ratio and can only increase by exchange.
11-19-2012, 09:22 AM
#18
(retired)
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: Old, retired, healthy, debt-free, liquid
Posts: 422
Originally Posted by Airhoss
Sunvox,
Please rationalize LOA 25....
Please rationalize LOA 25....
...10. Why does it look like I'll be losing longevity when the furloughed pilot calculations are finished?
No furloughed pilot will lose any longevity, and per LOA 25, longevity for pay can only be INCREASED. Furloughed pilots with longevity for pay of less than 4.7 years will be immediately brought up to 4.7 years at Date of Signing. This means that if they are currently flying at Continental, or if they accept an offer to fly at Continental before the Operational Merger Date (OMD), they will use the year five (5) column on the pay charts to determine their pay. After the seniority list integration, pilots will have a second adjustment to their longevity for pay based on their position on the integrated seniority list. Like the first adjustment, a furloughed pilot’s longevity for pay can only be increased in the second step and will never be decreased.
Plus, such additional adjustment will not result in any s-United pilot having a pay longevity date that is earlier than the pay longevity date of the next most senior s-Continental pilot (ISL after SLI). Despite rumors to the contrary, there is no provision in our current contract for furloughed pilots to gain longevity for pay for time spent on furlough; the two-step provisions to gain longevity credit for pay for time on furlough are only included in the Tentative Agreement.
Plus, such additional adjustment will not result in any s-United pilot having a pay longevity date that is earlier than the pay longevity date of the next most senior s-Continental pilot (ISL after SLI). Despite rumors to the contrary, there is no provision in our current contract for furloughed pilots to gain longevity for pay for time spent on furlough; the two-step provisions to gain longevity credit for pay for time on furlough are only included in the Tentative Agreement.
11-19-2012, 09:40 AM
#20
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Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 194
Originally Posted by trip
What happened to all the chest thumpers that were going to hold the line on 50 seat scope come hell or high water? Must be counting the new found coin in their pockets already. Disgusting.
