Enough Already!
11-20-2012 | 07:23 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 374
Likes: 0
From: 737 Captain
It appears that mgmt was playing chess while the MEC's were playing checkers all along. It all started with the TPA that, ironically, Heppner helped craft when he was NC chair under Wendy. That document served to basically codify existing scope ratios and protections in the CAL CBA for the UA pilots. There was no substantial gain for the CAL side in that regard.
Where the massive failure occurred was this time last year at the TPA renegotiations. Smisek had already shown his intrinsic reluctance to actively bargain with us, and by allowing TPA2 to have another sunset date only a year away gave the company the timeline and bargainng leverage they needed to drag this out and split the pilot groups into haves and have nots to secure a yes vote for a sub-standard TA made under duress.
I empathize with my lUal brothers over this decision, but I weep for all of us going forward because the scorched earth mentality approach to labor relations is all Team Smisek knows and cares to employ.
Where the massive failure occurred was this time last year at the TPA renegotiations. Smisek had already shown his intrinsic reluctance to actively bargain with us, and by allowing TPA2 to have another sunset date only a year away gave the company the timeline and bargainng leverage they needed to drag this out and split the pilot groups into haves and have nots to secure a yes vote for a sub-standard TA made under duress.
I empathize with my lUal brothers over this decision, but I weep for all of us going forward because the scorched earth mentality approach to labor relations is all Team Smisek knows and cares to employ.
11-20-2012 | 07:52 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
From: Le Bus
I believe there is a letter from a EWR CAL rep with those exact words floating around the board here. I'll look to find it, but in any case I have spoken with two members of our UAL-MEC and they both have said that this is the constant spoken and unspoken threat in almost every meeting. Why else would any reasonable UAL pilot negotiator agree to LOA25 and banding a 76 with a 74.
I can't decide to whom I hold more in contempt.
All I can say is thank you to the 7 no voters.
11-20-2012 | 12:32 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 0
Okay they get 1.5X pay after 78 hours. and night override unlike us. Oh and they don't pay 1.95% to a union that produces a contract you have to hold your nose to vote YES on. We can go around Joe, but you can't polish a turd. Hey how about we agree to make things all swell in Dec 2016!
11-20-2012 | 06:11 PM
#44
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: iah 73 fo
I figured I'd get a quick response. Look CAL, you and I may work for the same outfit but your position on your side of the T&PA affords you the luxury that no matter what happens here, you are UNAFFECTED. Not so with me. You can make all kinds of macho statements if it makes you feel better. It is easy for you because at the end of the day YOU do not have to worry about the things that I have to consider.
Really??
After upgrades, downgrades, pay freezes and pay cuts...ohhh and strike 2001 at Comair, I learned to live on 75% and save 25% for rainy days like this. I expect the aircraft cleaners to not be prepared for moments like this, not us. Each one of you is a professional!!! Fck, when are we gonna demand to be treated like it??
UAL pilots will not be screwed on this deal. You guys are ALPA. and you guys easily overpower CAL pilots vote-per-vote.
I wish each pilot would not make their decision based on FEAR of the unknown. We are in this together and will have to live with it till waayyy past 2017.
ohh yea, cant reply to everone here offended cause gotta fly but no macho statements...we are all in this together, and unless we stand together, we...R...fcked
11-20-2012 | 09:00 PM
#45
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
From: B737-800 Captain, Dubai
All that I have to say is that a March 2000 hire, 2172 and 1436, I am disgusted that:
1) My MEC would sell me down the river so blatantly.
2) Anyone with this letter of agreement would consider voting yes and consider themselves a union "brother".
This one item is worth EVERY pilot voting no. Any yes voter is as bad as the S#$B that only thinks about himself when crossing the line.
I love the explanation of putting '08 hires above '99 hires ****ing off fewer voters. How about standing up for what is right?! This kind of thinking is truly baffling as a union. Oh, and I have 7 years on the property, for all you '08 hires (who possibly were in High School when I was hired at UAL) that think you had better expectations than I did for longevity.
As my brother from CAL stated above - if we do not stand together, we are done. I would be voting to protect what is right for anyone on the property, including my CAL brothers (and sisters).
Randy Webb
DENFO
1) My MEC would sell me down the river so blatantly.
2) Anyone with this letter of agreement would consider voting yes and consider themselves a union "brother".
This one item is worth EVERY pilot voting no. Any yes voter is as bad as the S#$B that only thinks about himself when crossing the line.
I love the explanation of putting '08 hires above '99 hires ****ing off fewer voters. How about standing up for what is right?! This kind of thinking is truly baffling as a union. Oh, and I have 7 years on the property, for all you '08 hires (who possibly were in High School when I was hired at UAL) that think you had better expectations than I did for longevity.
As my brother from CAL stated above - if we do not stand together, we are done. I would be voting to protect what is right for anyone on the property, including my CAL brothers (and sisters).
Randy Webb
DENFO
