Coto Pilot

I had a long conversation with Brian today. Very nice and empathetic guy. He kept wanting to go to the script and say a guy that was at United for 5 years would get full longevity. I said I am not interested in the 5 year guy for the purposes of this discussion. I left United at 8 year pay and upon signing I will go to 5 year pay. He eventually agreed that this was correct. We have to keep their feet to the fire when they are trying to spin this into something it isn't.

missintheline

So all furlough time is not created equal AND all active flying time is not created equal?

How can this be considered logical, equitable, reasonable, or anything other than a(nother) royal boning for LUAL furloughees?

jsled

OK. That is not the way I read it or had it explained to me by my reps in Denver. But ok. $115/hr on 737-800/900 DOS and a minimum of full active longevity pay after SLI. That's the way Scenario 3 reads.


Scenario 3: Twice-furloughed pilot now working at CAL. Three years UAL, then another two years UAL, and 1.5 years at CAL.

At Date of Signing, the pilot will be adjusted to 4 years 7 months of longevity for pay purposes at CAL. This longevity will be improved after SLI by combining his UAL and CAL longevity. Additionally, for pay it may be improved by the SLI process as described in Scenario 2 above. This UAL furloughee working at CAL is considered a “CAL pilot” but is pay protected at his UAL pay rate. That pilot will see a potential increase in pay longevity to 5th year TA rates if the new rate is higher than the previous protected rate. After the completion of the ISL a second adjustment of his pay longevity will be computed to account for his time on furlough. This added pay longevity will be capped so as to not exceed the longevity of the CAL pilot just senior to him on the ISL. This pilot will NOT lose any longevity and can only improve upon his 6.5 years of longevity for pay. After ISL this pilot’s full earned longevity (CAL plus UAL) will apply.

fanaticalflyer

You are not getting it. First things first. Anyone with over 4.8 years of longevity will only get 4.8 years of longevity at DOS. We lose something right then and there for double furloughees. (oh yeah, don't remind me, but sure we go from our previous pay at UAL and move up in pay to 4.8 year pay at CAL) That's great and all but a 1 year guy from UAL gets a true benefit. The key words are" for pay it may be improved by the SLI process. THat's the kicker. Your pay longevity cannot be any higher than the next senior guy at CAL. If we get stapled, then we are stuck at 4.8 years of PAY. Watch MECs wording here. You will not lose longevity does not apply to PAY, which everyone is missing. Haven't had a MEC guy counter that yet. Jay H, is playing a word game here or doesn't understand the ramification of his lie. In fact, no one can positively say that our longevity for non-pay purposes is maintained after SLI (for vacation, etc..). IT's hard to believe we would be able to keep that. The whole intent of LOA 25 to position us for a staple. Get that straight and open your eyes and ears. How can you possibly think, we are going to get full PAY longevity if we are stapled at 4.8 years of regular longevity. Some guys need to take off the blinders and see what's going on. Right now The UAL MEC in private is conceding we got screwed and will have to fight this on a later date. Not fair nor right. So when you go to a roadshow, ask them point blank, if we get stapled, are we guaranteed to get paid higher than the next senior CAL guy, which would be at 4.8 years. Watch what their answer is going to be. It has to be NO. And then you can ask, hopefully Jay H., why he wrote everyone would not lose any longevity for pay when in fact, in this scenario every double furloughee will. When this example gets laid out to a MEC member, they stumble. Hmmmm. Believe what you want, but when your paycheck shows otherwise, what are you going to do then?!! Too late pal. It's easy to form answers that you want to hear or see.

kc135driver

I'll toss in my 2 cents.

I think the best ammo for our case is for the TA to pass (which I give it a 80% change) and then the arbitrator panel to make ANY reference to LOA 25 in the final award. Then the suit proceeds with very clear evidence that our longevity was manipulated for SLI and there are very clear damages to career expectations.

Let the MEC's choke on the mess they have made together, why save them at this point with a NO vote, it just brings on more stalemate.

BTW- I still don't get the logic why CAL is afraid of our furloughed longevity afforded in the JCBA giving us a bump in SLI yet they don't see the conflict in affording it to their own. If LOA 25 has "nothing" to do with SLI as both UAL MEC's contend, then somebody is outright lying, or else why even have it?

KC

Coto Pilot

Sled I was on the phone yesterday with Brian Finley, a United SPSC rep. He kept wanting to give me the party line example you just quoted. I said I want to talk about the guy that was at United for 7 or 8 years and has now been at CAL for over a year. He eventually agreed that that pilot is going to get 5 year pay upon signing, he will not even get longevity for the years he was on the property, much less his years on furlough. Even after the SLI, our pay will be restricted by the following language "provided further that the application of such additional credit does not result in any s-United pilot having a pay longevity date that is earlier than the pay longevity date of the next most senior s-Continental pilot." So if the SLI goes as CAL wants and the furloughed United pilots get stapled, a 2008 hire will be senior to all of the United pilots hired in 1999 and 2000 that have up to 9 years on the combined property. That CAL pilot has 4 or 5 years. We do not get longevity credit, we have been carved out.

kc135driver

Coto/fanatical-

Gotta disagree with you on pay for longevity after ISL. In case 3, after ISL that pilot is at 6.5 (5 active years at UAL + 1.5 at CAL), regardless of whether the next CAL pilot has more or less. That 6.5 CANNOT be reduced after ISL. I think it is pretty clear in the example.

So I have 8 years at UAL and currently zero at CAL. I go to CAL in Jan. If the TA passes I will be at 5 year than 8 years (plus a couple months served at CAL) after ISL, at a MINIMUM. While I'm completely on your side regarding everything else, I think you are reading into this a little to deep trying to find something that isn't there.

Secondly, longevity time for vacation accrual is changed in this TA to reflect ONLY active time. While it is a concession over the current UA contract, the TA doesn't give furloughed CAL pilots any advantage here.

KC

jsled

From LOA 25:
When an Integrated Seniority List is presented to the Company that satisfies the terms of Section 5 of the Transition and Process Agreement (“TPA”), pilots who are or previously were furloughed shall receive additional pay longevity credit for all time spent on furlough provided that they have additional time on furlough which was not credited for pay longevity purposes upon date of signing, and provided further that the application of such additional credit does not result in any s-United pilot having a pay longevity date that is earlier than the pay longevity date of the next most senior s-Continental pilot.........

I don't think YOU are getting it. The after SLI adjustment is for time spent on furlough. Nobody's ACTIVE service is getting wacked after SLI. Your're additonal credit can be 0, but not negative.

Sled

jsled

That is additional credit for "time spent on furlough", not active service. You CAN have pay longevity higher than the next most senior s-CAL pilot if you have ACTIVE service greater than his longevity. WHy would you use Scenario 3 to prove your argument then disregard the part that says "This pilot will NOT lose any longevity and can only improve upon his 6.5 years of longevity for pay. After ISL this pilot’s full earned longevity (CAL plus UAL) will apply." ???

Sled

jsled

FAQ > SECTION 3 - COMPENSATION > I AM A FURLOUGHED UAL PILOT. MY QUESTION IS WHAT IS THE MOST JUNIOR FURLOUGHED CAL PILOTS LONGEVITY? HOW DO YOU ENVISION OUR LONGEVITY IMPROVING POST SLI?


The pre-SLI bump is just an interim step. It takes you up to 5/6/08 pay longevity (only up, your longevity is NEVER decreased). Then, at SLI we will add all the furlough longevity we can, but not so much as would take you past the next senior CAL pilot. That might be zero, but in no case would a UA pilot's longevity be reduced, ever.