Our current contract has this little nugget from Sec 21:

It is further understood that any additional pass entitlements extended to other employees during the term of this

Agreement will also be extended to pilots, widow

The JCBA TA has this little nugget in Sec 21:

It is further understood that any additional personal pass entitlements extended to other employees (not to include Managing Directors and above) during the term of this Agreement shall also be extended to pilots,

SOO ... ALPA negotiators caved and will now allow the Company to improve pass entitlements for managment for the better with no "Me Too" for the pilots!
WT*O?

 

OH MY GOD!!!!! That's it! I'm voting "NO".

News flash. Jeff already travels in First Class.

 

 

Yeah ... he does! But the other 1000 don't. That's not Board of Directors ... that's Dept Directors which includes all of the Chief pilots on up in flight ops, it incudes the Hotel Dept manager on up, it includes the Flight Attendent managers, etc!

This little gem is just another way to trample upon the pilots. When will those pesky pilots ever learn that some people are just more equal than others. Now get back at the end of the line and we'll tell you when you get to talk!

How are you guys going to feel when some Manager fresh out of MBA school with one year with the Company gets put in front of your 25 years plus of service?

Besides that point ... how many other little rat T#&@$ are in there that we DIDN'T find and we weren't told about?

 

It will **** me off coach thanks for finding that for us.

 

He does have a very good point......Yet just another reason to add to the laundry list of NO's.

 

I'm going to feel SOOOO much better that the Chief Pilot is DH'ing in back in coach with me on a L-CAL airplane (it's "offline", you know) while I'm traveling back to DEN for training after my next bump, as the 757's slip away with nothing to replace them on the L-UAL side.

I've got a friend who is voting NO (loudly) because he is peeved that pay now starts at GPS movement of the aircraft, not brake release. When I pointed out to him that wasn't accurate, he told me that 5 people had told him that was the case, and ALL were voting no for that reason. I finally showed him in the contract that wasn't the case. Of course, I didn't get a chance to correct the other 5 people. My point is, if you dig, you can find little things that will incite people into anger and direct them to point no. That's what this thread is about. It's all about emotion. Which is what 90% of the NO voters are voting on. And you contend that 90% of the YES voters are voting out of fear. My hope is that everyone attends a roadshow, reads the Q and A, etc. etc. and then makes an informed business decision based on what's in the TA and evaluates the potential consequences of a YES vote, and the potential consequences of a NO vote. Just yesterday I read that "none of the good things in this TA even go into effect until 2014." Wrong. LOA26 very clearly spells out an implementation schedule, and the Q and A answers several questions to this effect, but this NO voter didn't even bother to read ANY of that. He was loud NO vote before the TA was even announced. In my opinion, that's just being dumb. The problem is, he stated this as a FACT, not as his opinion, so several hundred other pilots that read the thread and ALSO haven't bothered to do some research now head off telling their fellow pilots that "None of the good stuff even goes into effect until 2014!!" Then ALPA has to put out a communique correcting this blatantly false rumor, which sends the NO voters into a tizzy about ALPA selling the TA.

No, I don't like the fact that some flight manager might get a better pass travel deal than I do. But I see that as 1 small tree in a VERY big forest.

For the record, I personally see this TA as a B-, and the downside risk as a D.

 

Not true. Its only Managing Directors. Do you even know what that is?

You are just pot stirring.

 

Again not true. This was addressed in a road show. Its brake release. The aircraft movement was something about aircraft with the brakes already released when they close the door, (maybe for brake cooling, etc who knows) etc and they had to cover that. They said nothing changed here. And we've always had the ability to call in and tell them the time is wrong and get it changed if it doesn't match what happened in the operation. I've done it numerous times and never had an argument about it.

Go to a road show and ask the guys that put this together. Of course the ones who don't want to vote for any contract are going to make stuff up to sway the votes.

I had a guy tell me he was voting no because he didn't like the 1% provision in trip dropping. When I asked him why he said that it meant 1% of the trips would be left in open flying and they would be the trips no one wanted plus it would stop some junior guys from getting lines. I told him that's not what it meant. They have to build as many pilots lines and then AFTER allow AT LEAST 1% of the flying to be DROPPED back into open to seed the trip trading. He told me, "no that's not what it means". So about an hour later at the road show, they explained it exactly the way I did.

Please get informed and stop spreading rumors about what the provisions mean.

Trust me, I'm not thrilled with the contract either, but at least I"m aware of what everything in it means and not just speculation or going based upon what the haters want people to believe.

 

Perhaps you should read my post again.......

*edit* Actually, now that I read it, I wasn't terribly clear. I knew pay started at brakes released. I had to show my friend that in the contract because he simply wouldn't believe me based on the fact that 5 NO voters told him (erroneously) that it was GPS movement. I corrected my friend, but those other 5 are still out there spreading false information about the TA. I'm extremely disturbed about the errors in the "facts" constantly brought up by the NO vote side. When ALPA corrects their "facts" and assumptions, they get labeled as trying to "sell" the TA. Talk about a Catch 22.

I'm a STRONG "Yes" on this TA. Sorry if I wasn't clear