Yep. And here is the trick that the arbitrator has to figure out.

If a CAL guy was going to be a 737 Cap in 2 more years, he should be able to do the same on the integrated list.

If a UAL guy was supposed to spend his last 8 years as a widebody Capt, that should still happen.

If they can't both happen, there should be an equal trade-off of whatever. We all know it won't be perfect.

At the snapshot date UAL had 72 aircraft that were 777 and 747's and CAL had 22. The junior widebody FO at UAL goes below #4800 because most of the jobs above that seniority are widebody CAP and FO.

They are going to "math" this thing to death, and try to make it an equal deal (i.e. NOT relative seniority, NOT DOH, NOT matching up the JR Capts at each airline, etc.) and come up with a solution.

Either way, we don't get a vote and its probably going to get mixed reviews, but there shouldn't be any windfalls for either side either way.

 

Well said!

 

I agree with you LAX, but I keep running in to CAL pilots that say a furloughed United pilot has no career expectations. My classmate that was going to be number one on the United list for the last 15 months of his career was still going to be number one on the United list after recall.

 

R

GB...fair enough and relax. Ask your merger folks about the snapshots. If you believe, there is only one snapshot (merger date), then you are correct on the latest Capt upgrades and i can understand your viewpoint. However, I've heard from our merger committee members, that there are numerous snapshots, used pre-and Post the merger date used as background data in arguing for and developing an ISL. It accounts for retirements, medical, seat changes etc that will effect how an arbitrator panel awards...

 

Coto, with all due respect. How can a guy have career expectations when he has no idea when, if ever, he will be recalled? How can a guy even know how many aircraft or the status/ size of his company when/if that recall happens. I've read your post's for a while now, and I understand why you would take that position, I just don't see how it is a realistic position.

 

I'm sure our merger committee members have differing opinions of the snapshot protocol. We've seen that strategy being played our for awhile now seeping into the contract negotiations. Both sides will put forward their arguments, and we will see how it all turns out.

I'll relax Saturday. And frankly, your condescending remarks are not worthy of a response going forward. Best of luck to you

 

There are many UAL pilots that have said they feel bad for the furloughed guys because as furloughed they have no career expectations. So it comes from both sides.

 

By this same logic, no one has career expectations. God forbid something occurs tomorrow and United decides they need to park half the fleet and furlough half the pilots. No one could realistically hope their employer will be around forever. For the first time in 5 years United pilots begin retiring today. Unless you want to make the claim that United was going to liquidate (not likely with billions in the bank), even with zero growth you can easily see that all of the pilots that have a desire to return, would have been recalled in the next few years. I would imagine no more than half of the 1437 will return. This is what has Pierce grasping at straws such as LOA 25, pay banding and keeping United pilots at CAL from getting over $750 in pay on the first of the month even though they are earning close to ten times that. A furloughed United pilot flying at CAL does better on two of the three required considerations for an SLI, career expectations and longevity. It is up to the arbitrator to way each one, but they are instructed to consider these along with status and category. As I have posted before, my classmate was set to be number one on the list for a long time. We both have around 1650 CAL pilots that were hired after us. If you take out our time on furlough as well as their time on furlough, you would still have 1625 CAL pilots that have less longevity and arguably lesser career expectations based on the disparity in the number of wide bodies. What is fair?

 

I believe this to be very accurate. As we can see as the TA deadline looms, lashing out and name calling is becoming more frequent. I feel that the ISL will cause more of this. Hopefully we all try and realize that we cannot do anything but wait and see.

 

Every pilot has their own ideas as to how seniority integration should pan out. Both sides have Union committees that are prepared to negotiate an ISL. at the end of the day an arbitration board will decide.

Here is my pledge:

Being that I have absolutely no influence(except though my own union), control, or vote in regards to isl, I vow to never speak of it again on this board. Further, whatever the outcome, I will accept it and move on with life and work to foster a solid relationship with my fellow aviators.