LAX Pilot

Actually, all the 79 and before hires who are still flying were ALL furloughed, and they are ALL widebody captains now. But of course, they were young enough when they came back to last this long.

So they clearly had a career expectation and our furloughees will not be stapled, especially since they ALL have longevity which HAS to be considered.

LAX Pilot

Arbitrators won't care. They all have Longevity. That will be considered. They will also look at where they would end up "Ceteris Paribus" which means that no growth nor reduction happened and the furloughees were brought back as predicted retirements happen.

Some will hold WB Capt, some not, but that will be looked at along with their LONGEVITY because thats part of merger policy.

Lerxst

From Fri 12/21 CAL MEC Blastmail

...The Merger Committee has been working for some time preparing to ensure that the Seniority List Integration process provides a fair and equitable result for our pilots. With the completion of the TA in November, they now have started on a time line that will lead to an integrated seniority list in a timely fashion. This time line was established by protocols agreed to by the two MECs back in May 2010. A big step was taken this week by reaching agreement on the arbitrators who will, absent agreement by the parties, hear the case and decide the result. The three-person arbitration panel will consist of Dana Eischen, Roger Kaplan and Dennis Nolan. All are well respected, prominent arbitrators.

LAX Pilot

So what about a guy who is ACTIVELY FLYING on the CAL side and has 7 years LONGEVITY total? Should a 3 year pilot that was never furloughed go ahead of that pilot on the integrated list?

And if that pilot gets his 7 years of longevity restored (maybe not all 13 or whatever he would have had) then all the pilots who were previously senior to him will still be.

So its not like there is a huge group of pilots who aren't flying, many of them are flying, and they are also being paid at their previous pay, so that is going to get looked at as well.

Also the reason that pilot might be senior to the 3 year pilot is because of union merger POLICY. Its ACTUALLY WRITTEN! Its says "longevity" is a consideration. So they certainly HAVE TO make an effort to include it.

Also merger policy doesn't care if you are an employee. Its about merging pilot lists. Throughout the merger policy that's what it talks about.

So those pilots are on the list, and they are being merged....

I imagine if you were that pilot, you would have a different opinion....

Lerxst

A UAL pilot flying on the CAL side will still be considered furloughed for SLI purposes per the TPA; his time spent at CAL will not be added to his previous longevity until after the Order and Award.

Mitch Rapp05

FACT: Current l-UAL pilots flying for l-CAL are NOT accruing longevity for l-UAL. They are akin to a new hire off the street for L-CAL(except of course, their pay).

So, YES a 3 year pilot flying for CAL should certainly go ahead of the pilot stated in your example because he/she is STILL furloughed! AGAIN, expecting a pilot currently NOT employed with UNITED to displace a CURRENTLY employed pilot is not only unreasonable it is a windfall for the furloughed pilot. Though merger policy includes longevity as a CONSIDERATION it is more forcefully against any pilot gaining a windfall.


I imagine if you were an FO that was expected to upgrade at 3-5 years (or less), flying for a company that was hiring for both growth and retirements, and financially healthy compared to a dying UAL then you would have a different opinion as well...

Though nothing we discuss on this board can affect the actual SLI, we can certainly discuss realistic expectations. I believe that the root cause of years and years of litigation and an angry pilot group is unrealistic expectations. To even suggest that an (in-voluntarily) furloughed UAL pilot should displace one CAL pilot (that was never furloughed) is unrealistic.

LAX Pilot

I didn't realize you were a Southwest Pilot.....

johnso29

Regardless, your post was hypocritical. My opinion(which is worth whatever) is UAL/CAL pilots will see an ISL very similar to the DAL/NWA list. It will be a panel of 3 arbitrators(mutually picked) and they'll end up with a relative seniority list. You'll be around the same % on the combined list as you were on your respective single seniority list.

Mitch Rapp05

Taken in context, my post was not hypocritical. I agree with your above statement. That has been my point all along!

A pilot on the CAL list that is currently 99% and one on the UAL list currently at 99% should remain around the same percent. Furloughed pilots (of which are at 100.1 +%) expecting to leapfrog pilots currently at 100% or less is unreasonable and quite frankly appalling.

Regardless, good luck and hopefully we'll all be satisfied with the result.

LAX Pilot

Except that's not what ALPA merger policy says.....

And the 99% active UAL pilot has 13 years of Longevity, so he certainly won't end up 99% on the overall list.