Well said, while we CONTINUE to settle for less.

 

Good facts but a wrong summation/conclusion...the market determines everything. You will not/would not win against the competitive market forces of the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. I was a young adult when the ADA of 1978 was enacted, I'm a relatively "old guy" now...and there are still those pilots today who somehow think it's still going to go away.

 

Excellent post.

 

Well what did you do when you were involved or gave so much time to ALPA? Failed and ran away, frustrated and ran away? Give me clue so I know.
My parents said perceverance is a necessity

As we all know " during difficult times we see who is a great captain or a good captain does not jumb off the ship first"

Elaborate what did you do. No blaming here, but the union is you

 

Sorry I probably didn't make myself clear, I have donated a lot of my time to other things not alpa. I have found they don't listen to well so I state my thoughts and ideas to them to watch things get shot down or they agree and fail toact. So I put my time elsewhere. Yes perserverance is a necessity and you parents sound very wise.

I have not jumped off any ships just tired of the path we have taken at alpa over the years.

 

When our forefathers founded America the differences of opinion were so great that some threatened bodily harm to others. Today half of America thinks Obama is a saint and the other half is certain he is the devil incarnate. You don't have to agree with the results of politics, but bemoaning an outcome that resulted from a democratic process does nothing save raise your blood pressure and shorten your life.


I hate what has happened to our profession over the last 3 decdes, but I most certainly do not blame ALPA. The forces that have aligned against the pilot profession were enormous not the least of which is our own utter inability to work as a unified force. Too many chiefs and not enough indians. When American pilots felt slighted the answer was "form our own union"; when USAir pilots felt ignored their answer: "form our own union". American ended up bankrupt and USAir is likely to get the seniority integration they have always feared. No one won except the bankers, but all our vilification is reserved for each other.

 

Yes I also can remember 1978 and my younger days flying aircraft that are only seen today on a platform as you enter certain military posts, and my dreams of flying for the airlines were a long way from coming true. We share a common life span. The idea that deregulation will or will not go way is not the subject or the cause. ALPA still operates like deregulation never occurred while management has taken to deregulation to all but destroy our profession. Pilots have unfortunately continued to follow ALPA as their personal live have been diminished to bus driver status. Pilots need to either reform ALPA or create a new organization to represent all pilots equally. Reforming our profession to deal with deregulation and the RLA is way over due.

 

Different opinions I guess sunvox.

 

Again the point is not that there are different opinions , it is the fact that our profession has been under attack and we have done nothing to defend it. There is no debating the simple fact that the airline pilot profession has fallen way behind where we were when we enjoyed the respect of the public, the government, our fellow employees and in some cases even airline management. The failure to defend and enhance the profession must first and foremost be the responsibility of those we have payed throughout our careers to advance our cause and that is ALPA and all the other pilot associations. While doing research for another project I came across a salary survey conducted by the National Federation of Teachers and by their own statistics teacher salaries and purchasing power have kept up with the Department of Labor Inflation Calculator from the late 70's until the date of the survey which I believe was around 2006. There are no pilot salaries today that can come close to equalling this. So while our profession has had many hurdles to overcome we have no one to blame but ourselves and the organizations we foolishly believed were there to protect us.

 

Actually I think you are agreeing with Syd but I must admit I disagree.

With the advent of deregulation JetBlue was able to start from zero and go to hero in no time flat because they had lower labor costs, lower aircraft costs, and city aid to lower terminal costs. There is no labor union on Earth that can compete with rules that offer no protections to older workers in an industry where the structural basis of the costs go up over time no matter what. Meaning the older an airline becomes the more expensive it is to operate, and therefore the more vulnerable it is to be undercut by non-unionized and international competition. Pan Am didn't die because ALPA failed Pan Am. Pan Am died because other pilots undercut Pan Am payrates with B-scales and youth. Labor has no protection or rights in our society because Milton Freedman has convinced the majority of voters that unions are "inefficient" and make workers lazy. People don't realize that it's not a question of labor against labor it's a question of labor against capital. Everything we take for granted as workers such as 5 day work weeks, vacation, paid sick leave, etc. etc. all came from unions, but today unions have become the enemy in the eyes of the public and ALPA could not possibly have won that battle or war even if they acted perfectly at every step,

BUT,

that doesn't change the fact that we still have to fight today as in the battle to keep foreign carriers from undercutting the few advantages we have left in the CONUS travel market, but if we keep quitting ALPA and splintering our voice the war is already lost regardless of the politics.