CAL opening SLI video
04-17-2013 | 01:03 PM
#121
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 419
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04-17-2013 | 01:29 PM
#123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 908
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From: 737 fo
No. The only reason any pilot hired after 1994 at CAL can hold Captain is because pilots more senior have chosen to pass it up.
So trying to benchmark someone's hire date and use that as some kind of measurement tool is not relevant.
CAL has more variability in bidding because its done in larger groups, less frequently, in less desirable and larger domiciles, with terrible reserve rules, which incentivizes more pilots to stay senior as an FO.
UAL's position bidding is less so because of more domiciles, better reserve rules, more frequent bidding, and less commuters. So it makes sense at UAL to upgrade when you can hold it because you probably live in the domicile, can aggressively pick-up, don't get double pumped, and have 24 hour callouts.
So a 2005 holding something out of seniority doesn't bother me at all, especially when I have a 10 year longevity advantage.
So trying to benchmark someone's hire date and use that as some kind of measurement tool is not relevant.
CAL has more variability in bidding because its done in larger groups, less frequently, in less desirable and larger domiciles, with terrible reserve rules, which incentivizes more pilots to stay senior as an FO.
UAL's position bidding is less so because of more domiciles, better reserve rules, more frequent bidding, and less commuters. So it makes sense at UAL to upgrade when you can hold it because you probably live in the domicile, can aggressively pick-up, don't get double pumped, and have 24 hour callouts.
So a 2005 holding something out of seniority doesn't bother me at all, especially when I have a 10 year longevity advantage.
04-17-2013 | 01:36 PM
#125
Peace Love Understanding
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,040
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From: Airbus
This is not correct. Cal and UAL have Capt. Going at very close to the same relative seniority, both at about 67%. If life at cal were so bad as you claim and all peachy at UAL then capt would be much more senior on a relative seniority bases at UAL. The fact is Cal has had much more movement, movement the UAL pilots are trying to steal.
And the junior UAL Captain is at 52% of the overall list.
04-17-2013 | 01:37 PM
#126
Banned
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 536
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This is not correct. Cal and UAL have Capt. Going at very close to the same relative seniority, both at about 67%. If life at cal were so bad as you claim and all peachy at UAL then capt would be much more senior on a relative seniority bases at UAL. The fact is Cal has had much more movement, movement the UAL pilots are trying to steal.
I tried to make sense of your writings but gave up - sorry!
04-17-2013 | 01:49 PM
#128
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 735
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From: B787 CA - SFO
Not to belabor an insignificant point, like you I do not care, but FO Schwartz is in a 767-400 if you are referring to his interview starting at 12:45. I might have missed it if he appears elsewhere.
04-19-2013 | 03:26 AM
#130
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,725
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From: UAL retired
Not to interrupt the wonderful reparte going on here . . .
but just a few musings and a few facts regarding the most recent ISL created under the new ALPA merger policy. . .
and then here's how the arbitrator built the list:
Category and Class sorted by DOH
Now, here's the kicker some pilots jumped up 10% or more in relative seniority and some got knocked back 10% or more and the arbitrator said that was ok because it was in keeping with ALPA policy, and wait for it . . .
just in case you missed my other thread . . .
the list included pilots furloughed from Mesaba who ended up on the ISL twice and here's what the arbitrator said:
Of course none of this matters because past precedent never sways judges, lawyers or arbitrators
PS: USAir/AmWest and Delta/NW . . . guess what . . . category and class sorted by equipment ratio and relative seniority (with a few tweaks here and there) . . . gee almost looks like a trend.
but just a few musings and a few facts regarding the most recent ISL created under the new ALPA merger policy. . .
- it included 3 lists: Pinnacle, Mesaba, and Colgan
- one contract was considered "mature"
- the total number of pilots involved was around 2500
- longevity was very different for the lists
- pay was very different on the same equipment
- a handful of pilots were on furlough from Mesaba
- Mesaba the "mature" contract company was outright bought by Pinnacle Holdings which also bought Colgan
- Delta had already announced the end of the 50 seaters so one group had zero career expectations
and then here's how the arbitrator built the list:
Category and Class sorted by DOH
Now, here's the kicker some pilots jumped up 10% or more in relative seniority and some got knocked back 10% or more and the arbitrator said that was ok because it was in keeping with ALPA policy, and wait for it . . .
just in case you missed my other thread . . .
the list included pilots furloughed from Mesaba who ended up on the ISL twice and here's what the arbitrator said:
The ISL contains the names of some 59 pilots who currently hold both Mesaba and Pinnacle seniority numbers. Unless an existing agreement provides otherwise, these pilots are to select one number or the other at or before achievement of the Single Operating Certificate.
Of course none of this matters because past precedent never sways judges, lawyers or arbitrators
PS: USAir/AmWest and Delta/NW . . . guess what . . . category and class sorted by equipment ratio and relative seniority (with a few tweaks here and there) . . . gee almost looks like a trend.
Last edited by Sunvox; 04-19-2013 at 04:01 AM.
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