Pilotbiffster

So, you think it's FAIR that , absent a merger, I'd have been in the top 8% of the seniority list at retirement, but with the proposed CAL merger list I'll retire at about 40% up the list ? This is not unique to ME .. this is the situation for about 3000 UAL pilots hired '96-98 that were never furloughed. Is that YOUR definition of fair and equitable? That with 16 years of sweat equity contributed to the enterprise, my career expectations will be destroyed? Just yes or no, do you think that's FAIR and Equitable?

Inequities such as these transcend ALPA merger policy and are actually covered by the Bond McCaskill Act.

Flytolive

Done. Amazing wasn't it?

I wonder if Brucia was under oath when he dissented in the U.S. Airways/America West arbitration considering his breathtaking 180 last week. Think the arbitrators noticed?

ewrbasedpilot

Many stay on the B777 due to ONE reason............PBS. You'll get a great taste of it soon. As soon as they can hold a GOOD line as a CA, they will bid for it. I have a lot of friends on the 756/777 and they don't want to bid for CA until they're around 70% so they don't get abused by PBS................. You'll soon understand why................

SpecialTracking

Age is inherently tied to longevity when you look at the average pilot. Simply accounting for longevity does not mean the scope of alpa merger policy has been exceeded. If you're ok with the "younger" cal pilots with less longevity blocking/stagnating the "older" ual pilots with more longevity in the latter part of their career, then you are certainly entitled to that point of view and vision of fairness.

Airhoss

NEWS FLASH...

We've been on PBS for quite some time.

Pilotbiffster

Oh, please tell us, wise one with 5 years experience in the majors We've been on PBS since 2004 .. prolly 3 years before you got hired.

Pilotbiffster

See, that's my point .. the CAL guys see nothing wrong with destroying the career expectations of thousands of United pilots in order to enjoy the spoils. This was written by a 777 UAL Captain and forwarded to me:

"Sept. 1983 Continental pilots go on strike against Frank Lorenzo.

Sept. 1983- Nov. 1985 Lorenzo starts hiring the bottom of the barrel pilots that are willing to SCAB. Pilots that have been turned down by every other airline. Pilots that are too greedy and short sighted to not understand or care about the devastating ramifications their actions will have on not only their careers but the careers of all airline pilots!

Jan 1984- American Airlines pilots allow Robert Crandall to have his B scale without a fight due to the fear of being replaced like their striking brothers at CAL as well as promises of quick advancements due to American's expansion plans.

May 1985- United pilots go on strike to battle the growing cancer called the B Scale. Their fight is a direct result of the actions of the cowardly and greedy CAL SCABS as well as the Allied Pilot's Association at AMR.

July 1994- United Employees bought 55% of UAL with an ESOP. This was not an investment to get rich on UAL stock. This money was spent purely to rid United of it's pathetic, greedy management and force the company to focus on running a good airline.

I will not go on as you all know the history from there. The downward spiral of the airline pilot profession BEGAN with the cowardly and greedy acts of the Continental SCABS! These guys have gotten away with murder! Hell, ALPA National let them all back in the union with all forgotten! Let's not let them get away with our wide body jobs both Captain and co-pilot! The pilots that were on the United property in 1985 and those that have followed and fought the good fight deserve better! All of us had the opportunity to work for CAL but we chose United instead! Many of us left CAL or the other airlines that merged to form them to come to United! How many pilots do you know that quit United and went to Continental? I'll answer that for you. How about ZERO!

I hope our Merger Committee makes sure the arbitrators for the ISL know these points!"

13n144e

Unlike the author of this letter, I'm sure your MC has an IQ somewhat north of a tree stump. Just so you're aware of what your arguing for here, DOH only serves to move our scabs further up the ISL relative to senior UAL pilots. For the record, in 97 I had class dates with CAL and DAL. Honestly never even considered UAL because I thought they'd overreached in their hiring and most the people I knew hired there were much younger than myself.

You seriously need to give it a rest. Besides having no interest in being drawn into this tedious, pedantic debate, the main reason I haven't bothered defending the CAL ISL proposal is because I, for one, have barely even looked at it. Frankly it has as much bearing on you or me right now as the list the UAL MC will propose shortly; zero. They're simply debating points and in all likelihood that is what both will remain. Plus they're not nearly as informative as the rest of the transcripts. When the final list is out then I'll pay attention. In the meantime if either MC can figure out some way to staple and immediately furlough all the scabs, I'd be all for that...

Probe

I see one pilot on the CAL proposed SLI that will be really happy if it was adopted. Guess who?

JP.
He jumps from below halfway down the seniority list to almost 2/3's the way to the top.

Nice methodology. For JP.

JoePatroni

I'm no Pierce fan but currently he is around 35% on the CAL list.