Oh I also forgot to mention that organic growth requires you do not use any weed killer. What this means is unless one is willing to daily go and use sweat labor to pull the weeds they, the weeds, will come and grow amongst the good crop. These weeds will suck the vital nutrients and bodily fluids from the good plants who actually need care about the crop.

 

Lee..
Just got back online and figured I'd start with your post as it was the first response to mine.

I highlighted the word "Fact". It is not a Fact, it is your opinion. The Fact is, before the merger announcement we did NOT have a current base in LAX.
We had rumors of a LAX base and there was strong indication that it would happen. Due to changes in Hawaii flying, (it having shifted to CLE 737's) and the increase in new 73's that made the Hawaii flying possible, it was just a matter of time before LAX re-opened.
Key word- Re Open.

It is troubling that you don't believe that the CAL side had movement notwithstanding the LAX, ORD and DEN 73 bases. But if that were true.. shouldn't there have been movement on the LUAL side since you opened a IAH Base? And didn't your side increase EWR/NYC flying?

The "Fact" is, since being hired here in 07, I have had positive movement up my Seniority List. I had a negative bump back in Oct 08 when we furloughed 149 pilots. But within a few months I started moving back down the list. And once the 147 (lost 2 somewhere along the way) came back, my Seniority and QoL have continued to get better.

Can the same be said for the LUAL Pilot who was at 99% back in '07, or Oct '08? Can the same be said for the LUAL Pilot who was hired in '07? What about the tail end charlie Active LUAL Pilot after your Furloughs (a 99 hire I believe)

If what you say are truly "Fact"s.. then I expect I will read about it this week in your MC's rebuttal.
To date, my MC has done a good job explaining our growth and the situation Continental found itself in '10 and currently.

Lastly, you bring up the CAL 737 Flying out of LAX, DEN and ORD. Can you answer me this-
Was this "flying" being done by Airbus or other mainline flying before CAL showed up, or was it LUAL 73 flying that went to RJ's or simple went away?

During the Washington hearings, there has been some pretty good testimony about the shifting of flying between both sides, but that BOTH unions have monitored it closely due to contractual requirements. Makes for interesting reading~

Just 2 months to go!
Motch

 

------ lol ------

 

Congrats on getting hired at 24! I was still a sweaty in the USAF back in 89 (Rhein Main AB, Germany!)..
God knows you've had your highs and lows over the past 24 years and I nor anyone I know is trying to take anything away from you.

You feel that Oct'10 is a valid snapshot date. You are entitled to that opinion.
My issue with the Oct'10 date is that I have had positive movement these past 2.5 years regardless of the merger.
If we are to use the Oct'10 date, most likely I will still be between two guys from LUAL who were NOT Furloughed and on the bottom of their Active list. Only strange thing is this-
If we were both about 98% and today I am at 83% and they are at 95% (hypothetical for them).. and we both end up at about 85%, it can be viewed as a huge windfall for them.
I was one bid away from 777 FO (not that I want it!)
How close were they?

Again, this is the problem of the Arbitrators and I don't envy their job.
But it's not Personal, it's Business (that's directed at a specific pilot~ lol).

Whatever happens after Aug 21st (my bet for when we will have the list!).. I will adjust my career expectations, I'll still show up to work happy (love flying airplanes) and will make the most of my overnights.
I hope to fly with a bunch of you UAL types and first Bier is on me when we get to Germany. be it Stuttgart, Berlin, Hamburg or Frankfurt. You know, all those place we (Continental) fly to with our extended RJ~
hahahaha

Got to smile alittle guys~
Motch

 

Amen to that~

 

Ok, seriously.. that there is some funny Crap!
(no offense, tailwheel~)
LOL

But I do think TW48 still has a way to go before he achieves "Staller" type status.

Just my opinion
Motch

 

Agreed. But which is better (in terms of Career Expectations).. to work for a carrier that is growing their mainline fleet, or to work for a carrier that is shrinking their mainline fleet?

That question will be answered by the 3 Arbitrators.

SkyBus and Independence Air are just two of the carriers that come to mind that had alot of orders on the books but ended up going under. It's not just the orders, but it's what's behind them. Route structure, name brand, service, etc...
Then again, not sure if PanAm or TWA had new aircraft on order when they went under.. God knows, they had the Name Recognition and the route structure.. but not the business plan to make it work.

There has to be something said for an Airline that is constantly regenerating its fleet, and also ordering (and receiving) new Widebody Aircraft.
There also has to be something said for an Airline that has not accepted a new aircraft in 10 years, has canceled it's remaining new aircraft order and forfeited a huge deposit, parked an entire fleet of narrowbody aircraft and had new Widebody aircraft on order.. but as replacements and over 5 years out~

Again, this is nothing against the Legacy United Pilots personally.. it's has to do with your management team (or lack thereof).

I'm hoping that within 3 years we have a fleet of 30 787's, a handful of A350's, a boatload of triple 7's and a couple hundred + of A320/319/321's plus a couple hundred + of 737NG's/Max's.
oh, and throw in that stupid CS100/300 that you know is coming~

Then hopefully we can forgive the BS that went on from 2010 till 2013~

Motch

 

Even with all the "capacity discipline", UAL was still a much larger airline with a great number of jobs flying desirable WB routes.

In the end longevity, career expectations and status and category will rule the day.

Longevity will help many UAL guys in the lower third of the list, the other two categories can be argued either way with CAL having an advantage with junior guys holding Captain and UAL looking better for senior guys holding more WB Captain seats.

Historically speaking, I don't think you will find a merger where they used a date 3 years after the merger for SLI. All the upgrades after that point are meaningless since it was a combined company with the UAL guys being blocked from bidding airplanes being brought on board.

 

Sounds good on the fleet numbers Motch, however I don't think people will forgive or forget so easily.

 

I agree that LUAL brought more jobs and active pilots to the table than CAL.
As far as "desirable WB routes", that will be up to the Arbitrator to decide the weight compared to all the NB international routes that CAL brought.
With regards to LUAL being a "bigger airline".. yes and no. which yard stick? Fleet? Pilots? ASM? Profits? Losses?
The CAL Side MC has done a pretty good job of highlighting what CAL was, is and what they bring to the table. I'll leave it at that.

It will be interesting to see what the snapshot date is. You may be right, they may use the Oct '10 date. At the same time, historically, they have only looked at active pilots and an argument has been made about pilots who have been recalled.
Your MC's Proposed list showed every pilot as having a position, ie the last guy on your list, even though he is furloughed.. is shown at 100%. That is disingenuous.

And yes, Longevity does help the bottom of the LUAL list especially when using a '10 date vs. a '13 date.

Either way, whatever the Arbitrators choose as a date, I can and will live with it. I hope the same can be said for many other posters on this thread!

Motch