Rebuttal Day 3
06-17-2013 | 07:01 AM
#61
Straight Outta Map School
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Please tell me about your growth plans. Were you planning big 737 growth in EWR? Maybe turning CLE into a super hub? Maybe there was going to be a massive push in IAH? Just don't tell me it was going to GUM... Or better yet, maybe you were planning a frontal assault on UAL by opening hubs in ORD, DEN, and LAX! Being a new, albeit bit, player in STAR you do understand the ramifications of that when it comes to competition w/UAL right? Maybe you would've made a move to become the dominant player in STAR....?
Remember, I'm not saying CAL was going to die on the vine (not even Smisek is stupid enough to let that happen), but you need to get real about your strategic position per-merger. For example, do you REALLY believe that UAL wouldn't have replaced our parked guppies with mainline jets if consolidation (specifically DL/NW) was pushed into the future?? Can you really not grasp the concept that UAL chose to carry (for a limited time) a non-sustainable fleet mix for strategic reasons? It is my STRONG belief that you ALL understand that but are trying to take advantage of your fleeting good fortune. At my expense I must add.
Remember, I'm not saying CAL was going to die on the vine (not even Smisek is stupid enough to let that happen), but you need to get real about your strategic position per-merger. For example, do you REALLY believe that UAL wouldn't have replaced our parked guppies with mainline jets if consolidation (specifically DL/NW) was pushed into the future?? Can you really not grasp the concept that UAL chose to carry (for a limited time) a non-sustainable fleet mix for strategic reasons? It is my STRONG belief that you ALL understand that but are trying to take advantage of your fleeting good fortune. At my expense I must add.
06-17-2013 | 07:14 AM
#63
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,282
Likes: 0
From: A320 Cap
Please tell me about your growth plans. Were you planning big 737 growth in EWR? Maybe turning CLE into a super hub? Maybe there was going to be a massive push in IAH? Just don't tell me it was going to GUM... Or better yet, maybe you were planning a frontal assault on UAL by opening hubs in ORD, DEN, and LAX! Being a new, albeit bit, player in STAR you do understand the ramifications of that when it comes to competition w/UAL right? Maybe you would've made a move to become the dominant player in STAR....?
Remember, I'm not saying CAL was going to die on the vine (not even Smisek is stupid enough to let that happen), but you need to get real about your strategic position per-merger. For example, do you REALLY believe that UAL wouldn't have replaced our parked guppies with mainline jets if consolidation (specifically DL/NW) was pushed into the future?? Can you really not grasp the concept that UAL chose to carry (for a limited time) a non-sustainable fleet mix for strategic reasons? It is my STRONG belief that you ALL understand that but are trying to take advantage of your fleeting good fortune. At my expense I must add.
Remember, I'm not saying CAL was going to die on the vine (not even Smisek is stupid enough to let that happen), but you need to get real about your strategic position per-merger. For example, do you REALLY believe that UAL wouldn't have replaced our parked guppies with mainline jets if consolidation (specifically DL/NW) was pushed into the future?? Can you really not grasp the concept that UAL chose to carry (for a limited time) a non-sustainable fleet mix for strategic reasons? It is my STRONG belief that you ALL understand that but are trying to take advantage of your fleeting good fortune. At my expense I must add.
United to consider Bombardier CSeries | Boeing and Aerospace News - seattlepi.com
06-17-2013 | 08:29 AM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 621
Likes: 0
For example, do you REALLY believe that UAL wouldn't have replaced our parked guppies with mainline jets if consolidation (specifically DL/NW) was pushed into the future?? Can you really not grasp the concept that UAL chose to carry (for a limited time) a non-sustainable fleet mix for strategic reasons? It is my STRONG belief that you ALL understand that but are trying to take advantage of your fleeting good fortune. At my expense I must add.
The supposed logic is that it would not make sense to order a NB aircraft before knowing whether or not UAL would merge with a A320 or 737 operator. In the meantime, UAL is already operating 100+ A320 with a good many years left in them. Therefore, no matter who UAL merged with, there was going to be an A320 fleet for sometime. If UAL merged with US, the combined would have a huge A320 fleet. If they merged with CAL, there would be an A320 and 737 fleet. Does that sound familiar? Yes, it does, because that is exactly what we have today. Therefore, why not just order 100 A320's. Where is the harm? Better yet, buy some of the used ones that were in the market from failed airlines.
Oh, and it is so illogical to operate two similar fleet types, that Glenn Tilton, in all his wisdom, went out and order 787's and A350's. BRILLIANT!!
06-17-2013 | 08:48 AM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
From: Retired
I for one don't subscribe to the lame theory that CAL wouldn't have been able to make it on it's own. Alaska is doing pretty well. Hawaiian is doing pretty well. CAL was growing organically. The only real competition at the time was DAL/NWA.
USAirways was pretty dysfunctional as was American.
United was on the verge of collapse. It may offend some out there, but I don't believe United would have made it another year or two if it were not for the merger with CAL. They brought nothing to the table that couldn't have been bought for pennies on the dollar during the United liquidation, and could have helped us avoid most of the downside that came with merging with a decrepit dysfunctional airline.
There was a lot of opportunity for a scrappy well run airline like CAL to grow organically!
USAirways was pretty dysfunctional as was American.
United was on the verge of collapse. It may offend some out there, but I don't believe United would have made it another year or two if it were not for the merger with CAL. They brought nothing to the table that couldn't have been bought for pennies on the dollar during the United liquidation, and could have helped us avoid most of the downside that came with merging with a decrepit dysfunctional airline.
There was a lot of opportunity for a scrappy well run airline like CAL to grow organically!
06-17-2013 | 08:48 AM
#66
I love my job!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
From: B757 Capt
06-17-2013 | 08:54 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
Likes: 0
I'm no fan of Glenn, but the 787-8s (219 pax) and A350-900s (>300 pax) that he ordered are very different aircraft in terms of capability and mission.
06-17-2013 | 08:57 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
Likes: 0
06-17-2013 | 09:16 AM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 621
Likes: 0
Was anyone really a Glenn Tilton fan?
06-17-2013 | 09:17 AM
#70
SLI best wishes!
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
From: B767 Capt
I for one don't subscribe to the lame theory that CAL wouldn't have been able to make it on it's own. Alaska is doing pretty well. Hawaiian is doing pretty well. CAL was growing organically. The only real competition at the time was DAL/NWA.
USAirways was pretty dysfunctional as was American.
United was on the verge of collapse. It may offend some out there, but I don't believe United would have made it another year or two if it were not for the merger with CAL. They brought nothing to the table that couldn't have been bought for pennies on the dollar during the United liquidation, and could have helped us avoid most of the downside that came with merging with a decrepit dysfunctional airline.
There was a lot of opportunity for a scrappy well run airline like CAL to grow organically!
USAirways was pretty dysfunctional as was American.
United was on the verge of collapse. It may offend some out there, but I don't believe United would have made it another year or two if it were not for the merger with CAL. They brought nothing to the table that couldn't have been bought for pennies on the dollar during the United liquidation, and could have helped us avoid most of the downside that came with merging with a decrepit dysfunctional airline.
There was a lot of opportunity for a scrappy well run airline like CAL to grow organically!
The rest of your argument really has no merit if you overlooked the obvious point above. I have heard the United has 30 days until liquidation statements before, that was over 10 years ago. As to UsAir, have you bother to look at their revenue in spite of all their labor integration issues. The fact that a DAL/NWA and AA/US are force to recon with I would not want to take a chance on a stand alone United or CAL. So we are where we are UA/CAL, and no speculation/prediction as to what could have or might have been means squat, cause we will never know.
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