They do!
.................

 

Good point. Maybe just those few pilots involved. But also the LCAL MC, since they did use examples of those types of pilots.
[I do not recall the LUAL MC using such examples]

The question will be, will the Arbitrators "care"?

It would be interesting to hear/read the story of the LUAL Pilots who were hired at LCAL and left to return to LUAL. Where are they now?
It would talk to career expectations.

Again, it's going to be up to 3 guys to determine if it's relative or not~

Motch

 

Had the cal MEC been team players most of this would not have been an issue. Part of the delaying tactics used to cloud the waters and improve the cal sli position. The arbitrators are aware of these tactics.

 

.

Staller and et.all who buy this BS ... Why did the UAL side let this happen? Why didn't your LECs &MEC stop or block this tactic? And while we are on the subject, why did you let your company fire 1437 pilots? WHY???

 

C'mon man! Really?

 

Motch,

The only furloughs with any rights to a particular seat are the voluntary ones. Involuntary furloughs are recalled, regardless of their post ISL seniority, to unfilled vacancies (means they were offered to all active pilots, more or less, before the recall offer).

Remember, equipment bidding goes to the old UAL system under the new contract post seniority integration. Basically, a bid will be posted with the junior BES bids, they go unfilled, then recalls are offered for those slots. Takes about 30 days to do that evolution.

So you're correct, there could very well be a more senior guy that bypassed a CAL offer, gets/accepts a recall to a junior BES, and has guys junior to them on a more senior or preferred BES by virtue of having taken the TPA CAL job offer. Thats the way it is.

They will get a chance to bid any vacancy from that point forward. But, other than recall order, seniority plays no role in BES for a furlough recall assignment.

Frats
Lee

 

The Bold part is what I don't really understand with regards to Furlough Recall.

A bid comes out on 1 Oct for 30 737 Capt and FO's, SFO. Also a Bid for 20 756 FO EWR (NYC).
How do they recall the 80 pilots needed?

Do they first first fill all the slots and then back fill into the empty slots? What happens if 10 LUAL guys from IAD pick EWR 756... don't you then have to run a bid for the 10 empty slots in IAD?

When would the "recall" happen, and into what position?!

Under the old CAL System, we had at least 2 bids a year.. but we never had (nor can I recall) a bid where we needed to recall our furloughees plus hire at the same time.
AND- we always knew that 737 EWR and maybe IAH were junior. But now, all bets will be off!

Word on the street is that SFO 737 Base is happening soon.. but how and when they fill it is going to be interesting. If you fill it with some LUAL pilots (and I'm fine with that.. as long as it's done in some sort of seniority order), what system do you use for Bidding and Scheduling? If it's LCAL PBS and our CCS, now you need to import them from your system into ours!
What a mess.

And your part about a recall accepting a junior BES and then bidding into a more senior BES is true and makes sense. But what a training nightmare that's going to be!

I see pilots moving all over the place, and doing alot of training.. in the next few years. Of course the one good thing will be that they will be offering SRM/JRM pay for many BES's for a long time to come if this holds true.

Lee, I believe you're a LUAL guy over on the LCAL Side? Are you planning to stay where you're at or are you going to move the first chance you get?!
Will also be interesting what sort of limitations or deals ALPA makes with the company on this.
Seat lock for recalls?
No movement for the LUAL CAL Pilots until they would actually be recalled?

Like I said, this could get very interesting. Wonder if we will also have a combined union MEC by the time this all starts to work itself out?
When are we required to "merge" the MEC? At the end of the SLI? When it's signed by the union and company? At its implementation?

Back to my beer!
Motch

 

The comment was directed at one thanking LAX for his summary since they had not read the testimony. As for the analysis, have fun raising your BP at this process. It amounts to nothing.

I've had numerous friends (who need hobbies) express their firm conviction that the UAL side has sucked just as much as you think the CAL has. In the end, I fully expect it to fall towards the middle with a tilt towards the UAL side. The retirements will be there to make it smoother, but given the surly nature of this profession acrimony certainly lies ahead. I also to expect to hear the occasional asinine comment about this 'acquisition' saving my career for the next 25 years even if the list goes the UAL way.

Still think this sums up the banter on APC perfectly:

Born Into It

 

The same reason you guys hired Frank Lorenzo, defeated ALPA off your property and single handed, destroyed this profession as we know it!!

This ridiculous line of reasoning can go on and on but what does it really accomplish?

 

Hay Sonny.. think I might have found one of them (from my notes on the SLI Transcripts.)

Pilot C#### C#####
Hired UAL = 25 Jun 00
Furloughed = 2 Mar 02
Hired CAL = 18 Oct 05
Left CAL = 16 Oct 06 (resigned!)
Recall UAL = 20 Oct 06

Oh...
Furloughed = 22 Apr 09
Hired CAL = 12 Feb 13 (TPA 7B)

Compared to -
J##### V######
Hired UAL = 3 Jan 00
Furloughed = 2 Mar 03
Hired CAL = 18 Oct 05
Still at CAL!

So, between these two pilots - who has/had a better "career expectation"?

And the last "kicker". A pure CAL Pilot-
B### B#####
Hired CAL = 2 Feb 01
Furloughed = end 01?
Recalled = sometime 03?

Currently holds Captain 737.

It's not about individual pilots. That's already been said at the hearings. But this example is something that the Arbitrators probably will have to look at when it comes to "career expectations".
You have to look at the groups~ The Group at LUAL hired at the beginning of your wave back in 96/97. Same With CAL. Those hired in 00-01 at both sides.. those hired in 05-07 at both sides
Does a guy at one airline have better career expectations than another, based on similar dates of hire?

Alot goes into it. Looking forward to Aug (21st ?!) to see where these three pilots end up in relation to each other. Just one of many weird tough things.

Motch