Guess the date of the ISL Decision.
08-08-2013 | 06:06 AM
#241
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 532
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From: Cal reserve..the gift that keeps on giving
Numbers don't lie when used correctly. Not that this matters, but just to "edumicate" everyone that wants to use this argument in the future.
Imagine 2 companies. Company A has 200 "acitve" pilots and 100 furloughed pilots and company B has 100 active pilots. Now imagine these companies are identical in every other way same planes, same career expectations, same longevity. Now imagine Ben Salley is number 50 at Company B so he is 50th percentile.
If you merge these two companies as CAL recommended (i.e. 1:1) then Ben ends up number 100 on the new list and next assume you don't count furloughed pilots then his new percentile is 100/300 or 33% versus his percentile at company B which was 50%.
If you merge these two companies based on a straight 2:1 ratio for active pilots then Ben Salley is number 150 or 50th percentile, the exact percentile he was at company B.
Now imagine that you mix the 100 furloughed pilots from company A in with the bottom 50 pilots at company A and the bottom 25 pilots at company B using a ratio of 150:25 A:B only for the last 25 numbers at company B. In this scenario Ben Salley still gets number 150 on the seniority list but his percentile changes to 150/400 or 37.5%
If you are not in the bottom part of the list where the furloughed pilots are being mixed you have not been impacted, but your percentile has changed dramatically.
Imagine 2 companies. Company A has 200 "acitve" pilots and 100 furloughed pilots and company B has 100 active pilots. Now imagine these companies are identical in every other way same planes, same career expectations, same longevity. Now imagine Ben Salley is number 50 at Company B so he is 50th percentile.
If you merge these two companies as CAL recommended (i.e. 1:1) then Ben ends up number 100 on the new list and next assume you don't count furloughed pilots then his new percentile is 100/300 or 33% versus his percentile at company B which was 50%.
If you merge these two companies based on a straight 2:1 ratio for active pilots then Ben Salley is number 150 or 50th percentile, the exact percentile he was at company B.
Now imagine that you mix the 100 furloughed pilots from company A in with the bottom 50 pilots at company A and the bottom 25 pilots at company B using a ratio of 150:25 A:B only for the last 25 numbers at company B. In this scenario Ben Salley still gets number 150 on the seniority list but his percentile changes to 150/400 or 37.5%
If you are not in the bottom part of the list where the furloughed pilots are being mixed you have not been impacted, but your percentile has changed dramatically.
08-08-2013 | 09:50 AM
#242
Thread Starter
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2010
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From: UAL retired
It was meant to be funny and to help everybody take this lightly yet understand the simple mathematical reality of list building.
If "edumicate" offended you, then please accept my apologies.
Joe Peck
IADFO
08-08-2013 | 10:43 AM
#243
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 136
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From: B756 Capt Junior Lineholder
Kind of interesting to see what I have been hired into......kind of making me nervous too. I sure hope this animosity dies in August or whenever the SLI is finalized. Glad my availability for training is not until Oct when I pray this madness is over with. Otherwise....I guess mil leave is always an option.
The large (silent) majority of UAL pilots from either predecessor company are dedicated professionals who take great pride in what we do on a daily basis .
The company is still working on multiple merger issues and wil for a long time.
You are joining an airline that has tremendous potential.
Welcome on board !
08-09-2013 | 03:29 AM
#244
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 880
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ExE3,
Gofastmopar is right. There is the club for sure on this forum that, I am sure you can tell who, like to really blow hard about everything. I swear some would fight over anything just to fight but on a forum medium mind you. You are coming at a great time and will enjoy the people. One common comment you will here is this...both companies are essentially the same but just have different cultures. Not a good or bad thing but just different. Some on here show some bad. When two cultures come together there will be challenges for sure. There will be even more when we decide not to work to a common goal. Example is JCBA. Lot of spewing here before that and it is now fairly quiet. The SLI is doing the same for emotions but more because it is lifelong. You will hear about all this stuff for some years but eventually it will die down and all will retire or there will be other future issues that we will all face that will direct our attention.
Again, you will like it and welcome. Usually I speak to the new hires so maybe I'll see you in October? Also, mil leave can be good too. I do it and it can bring a little balance to both jobs.
Gofastmopar is right. There is the club for sure on this forum that, I am sure you can tell who, like to really blow hard about everything. I swear some would fight over anything just to fight but on a forum medium mind you. You are coming at a great time and will enjoy the people. One common comment you will here is this...both companies are essentially the same but just have different cultures. Not a good or bad thing but just different. Some on here show some bad. When two cultures come together there will be challenges for sure. There will be even more when we decide not to work to a common goal. Example is JCBA. Lot of spewing here before that and it is now fairly quiet. The SLI is doing the same for emotions but more because it is lifelong. You will hear about all this stuff for some years but eventually it will die down and all will retire or there will be other future issues that we will all face that will direct our attention.
Again, you will like it and welcome. Usually I speak to the new hires so maybe I'll see you in October? Also, mil leave can be good too. I do it and it can bring a little balance to both jobs.
08-09-2013 | 06:10 AM
#245
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,074
Likes: 1
From: The GF of FUPM
Every time I hear a lUal pilot spluttering that their career expectations were to retire as a Widebody Captain (even if they're currently on furlough) I have a flashback to flying at Express with all the Riddle Grads with SJS, all bent out of shape because the airline didn't realize they were "God's Gift to Flying" and we should just get out of their way and give up everything to them.
You may have expected the retire as Widebody Captains, but I know a lot of pilots going far back in history who had their expectations crushed by mergers.
Any ex-Pan Am pilots here care to chime in?
You may have expected the retire as Widebody Captains, but I know a lot of pilots going far back in history who had their expectations crushed by mergers.
Any ex-Pan Am pilots here care to chime in?
Any Eastern Pilots here care to chime in?
08-09-2013 | 06:46 AM
#247
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,071
Likes: 0
ExE3,
Gofastmopar is right. There is the club for sure on this forum that, I am sure you can tell who, like to really blow hard about everything. I swear some would fight over anything just to fight but on a forum medium mind you. You are coming at a great time and will enjoy the people. One common comment you will here is this...both companies are essentially the same but just have different cultures. Not a good or bad thing but just different. Some on here show some bad. When two cultures come together there will be challenges for sure. There will be even more when we decide not to work to a common goal. Example is JCBA. Lot of spewing here before that and it is now fairly quiet. The SLI is doing the same for emotions but more because it is lifelong. You will hear about all this stuff for some years but eventually it will die down and all will retire or there will be other future issues that we will all face that will direct our attention.
Again, you will like it and welcome. Usually I speak to the new hires so maybe I'll see you in October? Also, mil leave can be good too. I do it and it can bring a little balance to both jobs.
Gofastmopar is right. There is the club for sure on this forum that, I am sure you can tell who, like to really blow hard about everything. I swear some would fight over anything just to fight but on a forum medium mind you. You are coming at a great time and will enjoy the people. One common comment you will here is this...both companies are essentially the same but just have different cultures. Not a good or bad thing but just different. Some on here show some bad. When two cultures come together there will be challenges for sure. There will be even more when we decide not to work to a common goal. Example is JCBA. Lot of spewing here before that and it is now fairly quiet. The SLI is doing the same for emotions but more because it is lifelong. You will hear about all this stuff for some years but eventually it will die down and all will retire or there will be other future issues that we will all face that will direct our attention.
Again, you will like it and welcome. Usually I speak to the new hires so maybe I'll see you in October? Also, mil leave can be good too. I do it and it can bring a little balance to both jobs.
08-09-2013 | 09:01 AM
#250
Recommend Retention
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,077
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From: Bigfoot
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