777-300ER order
01-21-2015, 09:45 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: Gets weekends off
Posts: 1,168
Originally Posted by gettinbumped
I agree. The fences have hurt the LUAL pilot side much more than the LCAL pilot side. When was the last Capt bid on the 400? I don't think I can even remember one. And now you DEFINITELY won't see one anytime soon if the 777-300ER's start arriving within the next 12 months to replace the 400's early. Bummer for us. But it is what it is.
The other tradeoff is that Sparky is very junior. Seniority 6,000 on the seniority list would be about 30% in any base on Sparky. Same guy on the 747 is on reserve.
01-21-2015, 09:57 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,803
Originally Posted by Kilder
You mean having more pilots making the higher pay is bad?
Depending on when this 777 order comes will determine the fence issue...if they announce a 2015 to 2016 arrival then the fence will not come down until around late 2016 to early 2017...
Depending on when this 777 order comes will determine the fence issue...if they announce a 2015 to 2016 arrival then the fence will not come down until around late 2016 to early 2017...
Here's paragraph B-5 of the Arbitration Decision.
5. For a period of five (5) years beginning with the Bid Period in which the ISL is first implemented, or until the carrier takes delivery of its twenty-fifth (25th) B787 aircraft, whichever occurs sooner, no premerger Continental pilot may be awarded a Captain or First Officer vacancy on a B747 or A350 aircraft or displaced to one and no premerger United pilot may be awarded a Captain or First Officer vacancy on a B787 aircraft or displaced to one.
01-21-2015, 10:00 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Cal reserve..the gift that keeps on giving
Posts: 532
Originally Posted by pilot64golfer
Not really. Yes those exact seats are fenced, but when a LCAL 757 or guppy Captain upgrades to Sparky, that opens a 757 or Guppy Captain for anyone to bid. Same for all those 747 bids. Yes the direct bid sucks, and we should not have fences. I understand why they proposed it though.
The other tradeoff is that Sparky is very junior. Seniority 6,000 on the seniority list would be about 30% in any base on Sparky. Same guy on the 747 is on reserve.
The other tradeoff is that Sparky is very junior. Seniority 6,000 on the seniority list would be about 30% in any base on Sparky. Same guy on the 747 is on reserve.
01-21-2015, 10:23 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: Gets weekends off
Posts: 1,168
Originally Posted by socalflyboy
Why did they propose it? Not baiting you at all, just curious as to why they proposed it...tia.
The CAL guys actually proposed the 747 UAL / 787 CAL fence. That was their proposal during the rebuttal phase. It was their opportunity to change their proposal, and that was the change they asked for.
Like I said, its all done in December most likely, and I don't like that kind of flying, so I don't really care, but I know a lot of guys were uprooted because of the fences seeing more junior people doing work they used to do.
01-21-2015, 10:32 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
"You mean having more pilots making the higher pay is bad? "
Pilot 64 has it right.
If one holds the theory that there is some max pay bag we can win and how it is split up is what negotiations gets to decide, then maybe kilder is almost right.
Or one can say all pilots are getting less, just some are getting more or less than others.
Oh and some keep bringing up the idea these 777s may delay the 25th order. Personally I'd rather have more 777-300ERs than 787s. No what I really want is for all international airplanes to have a decent bunk room. 787 qualifies and I know the 777-300ER can also be equipped in such a way.
Pilot 64 has it right.
If one holds the theory that there is some max pay bag we can win and how it is split up is what negotiations gets to decide, then maybe kilder is almost right.
Or one can say all pilots are getting less, just some are getting more or less than others.
Oh and some keep bringing up the idea these 777s may delay the 25th order. Personally I'd rather have more 777-300ERs than 787s. No what I really want is for all international airplanes to have a decent bunk room. 787 qualifies and I know the 777-300ER can also be equipped in such a way.
01-21-2015, 10:32 AM
#48
Don't say Guppy
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Guppy driver
Posts: 1,926
Yeah I think the fence is done as well. Parts and interiors are ordered way out, and UAL's 787's are probably a done deal for at least 12 months. Nobody else would use them and the interiors are already ordered and being produced.
01-21-2015, 10:51 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,253
Originally Posted by pilot64golfer
There are 700 planes in the fleet. Only 14 of them are 787s. That's only 3% of the fleet that LUAL pilots can't fly. The 747's are only 5% of the fleet.
Fences are small potatoes, especially with the 25th delivery coming this year.
Fences are small potatoes, especially with the 25th delivery coming this year.
01-21-2015, 11:28 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: B777 CA - SFO
Posts: 728
Originally Posted by pilot64golfer
.
The CAL guys actually proposed the 747 UAL / 787 CAL fence. That was their proposal during the rebuttal phase. It was their opportunity to change their proposal, and that was the change they asked for.
The CAL guys actually proposed the 747 UAL / 787 CAL fence. That was their proposal during the rebuttal phase. It was their opportunity to change their proposal, and that was the change they asked for.
"Pilot career expectations are driven in important part by fleet composition dictation of available status and categories. On the basis of the foregoing facts and conclusions, we judged the widebody fences of the UAL Committee unduly complicated, inequitable and overreaching. We adopted, with some modification, the CAL Committee's more streamlined proposal to fence, for five years, B787 widebody flying for premerger CAL pilots and B747/A350 widebody flying for premerger UAL pilots."
EKN pg. 43
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
