Have you looked at the flying? Tons of red eyes. I have stayed in EWR for the much better flying and more days off, even with a slightly more difficult commute. Would love to jump to LAX, but that flying stinks.

 

Where's the deterrent in the equation? If all one has to do to be accepted after scabbing is smile, buy some beer, apologize, and fly a good jet, what's stopping anyone from crossing? Please remember while they are smiling and verbally falling on their sword for scabbing, they took someone's seat who was trying to better the profession. They're reaping the benefits of superior seniority at an airline where they probably would not have been hired under a normal interview process.

Now, back to this massive bid and the hopes of many more to follow.

 

Well, IIRC, there were pilots at a few unions that didn't allow picking up open time while pilots were on furlough. And IIRC, APA reduced the number of hours per month that lines were built to.

While such behavior (working near max hours/mo) is legal, it's not that much different than what scabs have done. Had UALALPA insisted on less hours/mo, the furloughs wouldn't have been nearly as deep.

As far as the vote on the furlough fund, you and I know that it barely squeaked by.

 

NO, you can't equate that to a SCAB action.

The SCABS will always be in a undesirables group along with pedophiles, women beaters, rapist, drunk drivers and pilot representatives that push for actions that benefit themselves at the expense of the collective group. No redemption or forgiveness for this group.

The SCABS that were allowed in the LCAL group will always be SCABS but you have to question why they elect to wear that ALPA pin knowing exactly WHO THEY ARE and WHAT THEY DID. It's for one reason only and that's to hide what they did. They could care less about you, your family or belonging.

BenS wrote a scathing letter to returning furloughed LUAL pilots to Houston LCAL. Essentially threatening them for not socializing with SCABS. As professionals, we do our job and deal with the SCABS. the company or a rogue ALPA leader can not threaten our job for not socializing with any undesirable, specifically SCABS.

 

I must have missed that letter. I've had a couple of long conversations with BenS over an issue and found him very professional and cordial. I felt the same (professional and cordial) when I had conversations with LAX and SEA UALALPA reps.

As far as equating the behavior to scab actions, those that padded their time deprived other pilots of the opportunity to work. There are a lot of parallels. I'm past being angry about that behavior, but it certainly isn't the type of behavior that makes for a strong union.

Edit: let me toss in one more action that I found very distasteful by the union. When the post-BK money was being divided among the pilots, there was an arbitrary date picked and if you weren't on property by that date, you got something like 10 shares of post-BK stock. I wasn't recalled prior to the cutoff date so I got ~10 shares. Delta's pilots included everyone on furlough when the money was divided up.

 

There is no behavior that can equate to a SCAB taking anothing mans job. You'll never be able to spread enough Fairy Dust to change that.
Judge a man for what he does, not what he says - this applies very appropriately to BenS.

 

Yes it did. I voted for it. Obviously I was dumb enough not to realize that it would be viewed by guys like you as another slap in the face. Those that voted no obviously knew better than me. Next time I will know better. I'll mark your post for future reference.

As far as APA controlling what lines were built to with guys on furlough.....if your contract allows for that and hasn't yet been trashed in Chapter 11, you can enforce that. One could argue that if APA had taken cuts of the magnitude that UAL did, they could have avoided deeper furloughs at American.

 

I find it disappointing that you are defending union members putting in a bunch of overtime while there were pilots on the street. I find that behavior reprehensible and scablike. Those pilots were taking away the jobs of those of us who were on the street - you can spin it however you want, but it kept a lot of pilots out on the street longer than they would have been.

There were several other union actions that were voted on that also negatively impacted pilots on furlough but I'd prefer to not dredge up the past. All that thinking about the hypocrisy of those actions will do is anger me; nothing good will come from it.

 

Can't speak for LCAL, but at LUAL the line value was dictated by the Ch 11 UPA. There was no ability to reduce the # of hours in our lines, and believe me the junior pilots in seats were NOT happy about being flown max hours and min days off. Things got bad enough that UAL was successful in getting an injunction against the pilots for "job actions", including sick leave "abuse".

There was MANY cases of pilots being harassed for picking up open time with pilots on furlough, again met with discipline and threats. I will not confirm or deny being involved in publishing names of "pick up pilots" or leaving notes in V-files. But I take exception to your suggestion that LUAL pilots were happily picking up open time while pilots were on furlough. Most very clearly "got it" and tried like hell to fly as little as possible.

 

Enough. No mas. No need to continue with the pettiness.

I would have been a LOT more happy with a full share of the post-BK money than any furlough fund.