Originally Posted by oldmako

I say we swing for the fence whether it be this month or in Sect 6. We're already getting two raises the next two years. They can buy new planes today, nothing in our agreement prevents that. That's a giant shiny red herring with wings purely designed to sway the voters on the bottom third, hell maybe even bottom quarter of the Sen list. We give them an extension for a few shekels now, they'll drag their feet forever on the next one. I smell a rat.

When have they EVER come to us with hat in hand? Remember "On Top, On Time"?? Remember what they did to us TWICE in bankruptcy. Different players, sure. But the same mindset.

AA and USAir, the last two holdouts on PBS, now get to "enjoy" PBS. These guys never let up. We always do.

Originally Posted by oldmako

I think some are underestimating what the company will want in exchange for some cash now and some planes later.

Along with relaxation in the long haul duty day, I smell TWO pilots doing EU flying from both EWR and IAD. After all, that how it was done at LCAL and today's UA resembles LCAL more than it does LUAL. After all, we will have relaxed our position on fatigue issues. And if they could secure that, forget about upgrades for several years. They would instantly be overstaffed. They'll come in with a long wish list and we'll beat our chests and make them capitulate on one or two so we can assuage our "brain surgeon" egos and talk tough in ops, but we'll eventually agree to the rest. And since those the items they REALLY wanted anyway, they win. Again.

I would also expect them attempt to significantly dilute profit sharing. Its been said here forever, they think long term while we think about next year. We are truly our own worst enemies. For example, I laugh now when I read all the complaining about reserve abuse when we HANDED it to them in the current agreement because of how well we were played during the whipsaw days.

And in a few years, after we've given away work rules and QOL items (in exchange for an increase in hourly pay), they'll come after the "cushy" hourly rates (which WE paid for) during the next economic downturn. Why? "because we gotta save the company!"

Pessimistic as always, James.

Originally Posted by ugleeual

James, I can see two pilots on the Irish runs… but further East will be a stretch… with the 90 minute reports and 7.5+ flight times it will exceed the FARs won't it for two pilots?
Russ

Originally Posted by AxlF16

Presumably they will still need whatever they are seeking now. They need something badly enough that they are (allegedly...) willing to spend money early. We can either cash in that leverage on a few items now or try to use it to prod them into an agreement on the full CBA during Sec6 later...and hope the leverage still exists. The one thing we can be sure of is that if we cash in now, that 'leverage' won't exist in the future -- we'll be hoping additional leverage materializes.

I'm not necessarily against these negotiations, but I see absolutely ZERO reason to entertain ANY concession. We are in growth mode - nearly every one of us has the opportunity to make additional money with an upgrade. We all have two 3% raises coming over the next 15 months. A growing number of pilots are in their first 12 years and are thus getting pay raises each year. It's not like the stagnant post 9/11 era! If we can't resist selling pieces of our contract NOW, then we are hopeless.

Edit add:
When/If I have the opportunity to vote on a TA from this negotiation, I will make my decision based on several considerations.
My assumptions are:
- If we vote 'No', we will enter Sec6 as previously planned
- The leverage that exists today will most likely still exist when Sec6 negotiations begin
- Voting 'Yes' will extend Sec6 negotiations by ~1-2 years (on top of the extension + estimated 3 yr process) - meaning no new CBA until ~2022'ish'
- The company will use whatever changes we allow in the most harmful way possible to the pilot group (worse than any scenario I can predict)

Given the above, I will look very closely at the things that are NOT being addressed in the negotiation and subsequent TA. Am I willing to wait 6+ years (vs 1-3) for improvements in these things? I'm going to go back through the materials we were provided when we voted on our current CBA for a full explanation of all sections. Off the top of my cranium I can think of Sick Leave, Vacation Credit per day, Training Credit per day, Reassignment rules, etc...

I also expect ALPA to explain WHAT the company wanted, WHY they wanted it so quickly, and HOW badly they want it. IOW, I want a feel for the nature and amount of leverage we really have. This should be easy to explain, and any obfuscation will make me VERY wary. Without a solid understanding of the companies desires and our leverage I will vote NO.

Finally I'll consider the merits of the TA. In short, are we extracting the maximum benefit from the leverage we have and from the modifications we agree to make. If this isn't a slam dunk then I'm voting NO. It's worth noting that I need to do a lot of study, research, and discussion about FRMS & MOU22, and the impacts of their modifications. That has begun.

I view this process the same as the old saying "I refuse to belong to any club that would have me as a member". Honestly, I expect to be thoroughly underwhelmed by whatever proposal the company pushes across the table. Take your best guess and divide by 3. I just don't think they have it in them to offer enough compensation to get my attention. The catch 22 is that the more money they offer, the more suspicious I'll be that they are pulling something over on us.

Originally Posted by oldmako

AA and USAir, the last two holdouts on PBS, now get to "enjoy" PBS. These guys never let up. We always do.

Originally Posted by BMEP100

SWA hasn't been sucked in,

Originally Posted by BMEP100

SWA hasn't been sucked in,