PastV1by10

Must be a nurp if you think even one airplane on our ramps is okay.

FTFFv2

Thought this made it pretty clear of the point I was getting at:

When UPS starts their own version of TED, SONG, or starts outsourcing to a regional type model then it’s probably justified to start knocking the EB. And correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t you the one thinking of cracking the 200K number year two? Ain’t gunna do that unless you do the work of 1+ pilot.... ..... .....

Where in my post are you ascertaining I’m implying that? Making ship up in your own head there mate - attentive and objective reading skills would help with that. You are attacking the EB. I’m calling you out for having a myopic arguement.

PastV1by10

Wasn't knocking anyone, just stating fact. For years our leadership has allowed us to believe that we have a "iron clad" scope article mate. It seems pretty far from iron clad to me, but let me guess your ok with 60 dollars every other pay period.

FTFFv2

I think it’s pretty clear to everyone that this was a desperate action by UPS to patch a hole they created vs a grand master plan to save costs by subcontracting. I’ll wait and see how this plays out before passing judgement. And by choice, in reaction to the subcontracting, not intending to influence others, I don’t pick up extra work but when I do it’s only from the trip board.

$60 x 2700 pilots = $162K. Costing them almost the salary of a year 2 FO every bid period. Or $2.1M per year. That’ll show up on a balance sheet. It might not be iron clad but it’s got some teeth...

Ray Kinsella

Year 2 FO is north of $200k. Just sayin.

PastV1by10

and capts north of 450K.

whalesurfer

I agree with few of your other points but are you thinking of some of them good ‘ole Kentucky teeth here??



This $2.1M Kentucky TOOTH is a dream come true for brown because even though the penalty is an additional cost the contractors themselves are dirt cheap. You need to factor in the subcontractors’ pay rates. I got aprox numbers from an Austrian pilot who transitioned from emirates to turkish airlines for commuting purposes. He said that Turkish Airlines pays 25-30% less than Emirates. ..and the Turkish pay is about twice of what contractors out there get. So basically their senior captains (turkish subcontractors) make about half of what our junior FOs make. YUUUUGE savings for our company.

So while the company has to pay us a staggering $2.1M for this flagrant outsourcing of our flying, they still save millions of dollars for every year non-ipa pilots fly our cargo.

Having said that, our scope is being challenged by the company and we all need to stick together. Many new hires and new-hire wannabes read these threads and I think your (cl300, harrisburg, pastv1, etc.) absolutely valid criticism should be put in context of our union negotiating with a big brown wall.

Maybe the scope isn’t as great as we thought it was or maybe it is? I don’t know, those decisions were made before my time here and it’s all WAY above my pay grade. ..but what other options do we or did we have?

What we do know is that our EB needs us to stick together and to follow their lead. I’m proud of our union and know that you are too. We all know that our lives would’ve been absolutely miserable without the work rules and the benefits IPA negotiated for us. Case in point, after my next 11-day trip I’ll be off for at least 39 days, possibly longer if I manage to get the first 2 weeks off in the 18-04 bid. ..and all I had to work with were 2 weeks of vacation! So 2 weeks of vac + OCV = LUV!!! LOL!
I showed my schedule to my fdx crashpad roomie and he was absolutely flabbergasted.

Yes, I’m worried. Yes, I’m mad at the company for their poor planning and their constant disregard of our contract.
However, I’m also optimistic that the union will defend us and that in the end we’ll be ok. The company wants to grow. So do we. I’m hopeful we’ll see a solution that’s acceptable to both sides.

Harrisburg

Well said.

My personal opinion only is that we are just now aware of this subcontracting because it is happening in plain view. Can't even begin to imagine how much cheating is going on in other parts of the world we are not aware of. India has 1.3 ish billion people yet 1 flight a day to the whole country? Indonesia well over 250 million people and we don't even have a flight going in there? For every Western Global jet, they probably have 20 other doing the same thing under the radar and there ain't nothing we can do about it. Scope Tracker program I have found to be utterly useless as they will simply respond with a "nothing to see here" and that's the end of story.

Scope language is cute, and will remain as such until we invest in ways to police it more effectively than to simply ask the company "hey fellers, are you cheating us, again?" FedEx pilots don't need scope because their company operates differently. We, on the other hand, are working for some of the most dishonest people in the industry.

BoilerUP

Ask a FedEx pilot about the wet lease subcontracting payments they get

Harrisburg

Better yet, ask a FedEx pilot about all the subcontract/outsourcings their company is doing.