Apr 9th & May 7th classes
03-10-2018, 04:49 PM
#21
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
Originally Posted by whalesurfer
Yes, I’m worried. Yes, I’m mad at the company for their poor planning and their constant disregard of our contract.
However, I’m also optimistic that the union will defend us and that in the end we’ll be ok. The company wants to grow. So do we. I’m hopeful we’ll see a solution that’s acceptable to both sides.
It may be true that UPS wants to grow. So does the IPA.
But, it does not seem like UPS wants to grow with us. At least not according to their actions. Actions speak louder than words.
UPS already has a solution, they could have included the IPA in the process a long time ago. They chose not to. I'm not so sure their idea of growth is a good thing.
03-10-2018, 06:42 PM
#24
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 61
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
Point being, they also have other airlines flying their volume...
Maybe a bag or two here and there, not a whole fleet of wide bodies. FedEx operates their airline like they enjoy having an airline. Our people act like they are doing it at gun-point.
03-11-2018, 01:55 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 126
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
Ask a FedEx pilot about the wet lease subcontracting payments they get
03-11-2018, 04:42 AM
#26
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 39
Originally Posted by whalesurfer
I agree with few of your other points but are you thinking of some of them good ‘ole Kentucky teeth here?? 
This $2.1M Kentucky TOOTH is a dream come true for brown because even though the penalty is an additional cost the contractors themselves are dirt cheap. You need to factor in the subcontractors’ pay rates. I got aprox numbers from an Austrian pilot who transitioned from emirates to turkish airlines for commuting purposes. He said that Turkish Airlines pays 25-30% less than Emirates. ..and the Turkish pay is about twice of what contractors out there get. So basically their senior captains (turkish subcontractors) make about half of what our junior FOs make. YUUUUGE savings for our company.
So while the company has to pay us a staggering
$2.1M for this flagrant outsourcing of our flying, they still save millions of dollars for every year non-ipa pilots fly our cargo.
Having said that, our scope is being challenged by the company and we all need to stick together. Many new hires and new-hire wannabes read these threads and I think your (cl300, harrisburg, pastv1, etc.) absolutely valid criticism should be put in context of our union negotiating with a big brown wall.
Maybe the scope isn’t as great as we thought it was or maybe it is? I don’t know, those decisions were made before my time here and it’s all WAY above my pay grade. ..but what other options do we or did we have?
What we do know is that our EB needs us to stick together and to follow their lead. I’m proud of our union and know that you are too. We all know that our lives would’ve been absolutely miserable without the work rules and the benefits IPA negotiated for us. Case in point, after my next 11-day trip I’ll be off for at least 39 days, possibly longer if I manage to get the first 2 weeks off in the 18-04 bid. ..and all I had to work with were 2 weeks of vacation! So 2 weeks of vac + OCV = LUV!!! LOL!
I showed my schedule to my fdx crashpad roomie and he was absolutely flabbergasted.
Yes, I’m worried. Yes, I’m mad at the company for their poor planning and their constant disregard of our contract.
However, I’m also optimistic that the union will defend us and that in the end we’ll be ok. The company wants to grow. So do we. I’m hopeful we’ll see a solution that’s acceptable to both sides.
This $2.1M Kentucky TOOTH is a dream come true for brown because even though the penalty is an additional cost the contractors themselves are dirt cheap. You need to factor in the subcontractors’ pay rates. I got aprox numbers from an Austrian pilot who transitioned from emirates to turkish airlines for commuting purposes. He said that Turkish Airlines pays 25-30% less than Emirates. ..and the Turkish pay is about twice of what contractors out there get. So basically their senior captains (turkish subcontractors) make about half of what our junior FOs make. YUUUUGE savings for our company.
So while the company has to pay us a staggering
$2.1M for this flagrant outsourcing of our flying, they still save millions of dollars for every year non-ipa pilots fly our cargo.Having said that, our scope is being challenged by the company and we all need to stick together. Many new hires and new-hire wannabes read these threads and I think your (cl300, harrisburg, pastv1, etc.) absolutely valid criticism should be put in context of our union negotiating with a big brown wall.
Maybe the scope isn’t as great as we thought it was or maybe it is? I don’t know, those decisions were made before my time here and it’s all WAY above my pay grade. ..but what other options do we or did we have?
What we do know is that our EB needs us to stick together and to follow their lead. I’m proud of our union and know that you are too. We all know that our lives would’ve been absolutely miserable without the work rules and the benefits IPA negotiated for us. Case in point, after my next 11-day trip I’ll be off for at least 39 days, possibly longer if I manage to get the first 2 weeks off in the 18-04 bid. ..and all I had to work with were 2 weeks of vacation! So 2 weeks of vac + OCV = LUV!!! LOL!
I showed my schedule to my fdx crashpad roomie and he was absolutely flabbergasted.
Yes, I’m worried. Yes, I’m mad at the company for their poor planning and their constant disregard of our contract.
However, I’m also optimistic that the union will defend us and that in the end we’ll be ok. The company wants to grow. So do we. I’m hopeful we’ll see a solution that’s acceptable to both sides.
This makes no sense at all. It makes no difference whatsoever what Western Global pays their pilots. Whether a captain there makes $75,000 or $500,000, UPS pays them (the contracting company) a set fee for ACMI. I assure you that a short term contract (one year if you believe the rumors) in these market conditions is most assuredly not inexpensive. So you take expensive subcontracted lift AND add on a not unsubstantial penalty (if that becomes true) and it, in fact, does begin to get the attention of Atlanta (the only people that really matter for change at a corporate level). But then again, I went to public school in Kentucky and apparently you have little regard for that. I do absolutely agree on the unity part (hence, the no making fun of you and your education. Despite an incredibly flawed argument on your part). Also, OCV is incredible. I'm getting ready to take advantage of that myself. Enjoy your time off, be professional and remain UNITED.
03-11-2018, 01:56 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,339
Originally Posted by skek
This makes no sense at all. It makes no difference whatsoever what Western Global pays their pilots. Whether a captain there makes $75,000 or $500,000, UPS pays them (the contracting company) a set fee for ACMI. I assure you that a short term contract (one year if you believe the rumors) in these market conditions is most assuredly not inexpensive....
...But then again, I went to public school in Kentucky and apparently you have little regard for that. I do absolutely agree on the unity part (hence, the no making fun of you and your education. Despite an incredibly flawed argument on your part). Also, OCV is incredible. I'm getting ready to take advantage of that myself. Enjoy your time off, be professional and remain UNITED.
...But then again, I went to public school in Kentucky and apparently you have little regard for that. I do absolutely agree on the unity part (hence, the no making fun of you and your education. Despite an incredibly flawed argument on your part). Also, OCV is incredible. I'm getting ready to take advantage of that myself. Enjoy your time off, be professional and remain UNITED.
I’m certain that this “most assuredly not inexpensive,” short term contract is worth peanuts to Atlanta when compared to the cost of growing our side of business. ..and the ‘short term contract’ part must’ve been lost on western global when they tell interviewees that this deal will generate hiring for years to come. Sure, they’re probably bluffing to entice more people to apply but..
Little disregard to public schools in Kentucky?? Huh? Went to public school myself and I don’t see it even mentioned in the comment you highlighted ? ...unless it pertains to some joke I might’ve made in a previous comment maybe? Not sure..
How about you quote just the part you’re disagreeing with or want to talk about next time instead of coping an entire segment?
Funny how you highlight the word UNITED after you rip into me with your very first post.
I think we agree on the fact outsourcing of our flying is wrong. I’m glad the company has to pay a penalty but I worry this penalty just isn’t severe enough for them to do something about it. Not criticizing the union because they did what they could. I simply believe the value of this penalty is minuscule to Atlanta bean counters.
People following the contract, flying the line and nothing but the line and never waiving the contract might have a greater effect on ipa haters in Atlanta. We’ll see what the future holds..
Last edited by whalesurfer; 03-11-2018 at 02:06 PM.
03-11-2018, 02:03 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,339
Originally Posted by CactusCrew
Agree, to a certain degree.
It may be true that UPS wants to grow. So does the IPA.
But, it does not seem like UPS wants to grow with us. At least not according to their actions. Actions speak louder than words.
...
It may be true that UPS wants to grow. So does the IPA.
But, it does not seem like UPS wants to grow with us. At least not according to their actions. Actions speak louder than words.
...
I’m still hopeful though.
03-11-2018, 05:35 PM
#29
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 96
I am surprised that some think having other carriers on our ramps is no big deal. Maybe if we put it into a staffing perspective of 7 international airplanes equaling into 70 new captain and 100 new fo positions would make it sting a little more. Got guys ticked off at NURPs being hired into the left seat but some don’t give chit about these other outfits flying out rubber dogchit. Can’t really make this stuff up.
03-14-2018, 03:15 PM
#30
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by PastV1by10
I am surprised that some think having other carriers on our ramps is no big deal. Maybe if we put it into a staffing perspective of 7 international airplanes equaling into 70 new captain and 100 new fo positions would make it sting a little more. Got guys ticked off at NURPs being hired into the left seat but some don’t give chit about these other outfits flying out rubber dogchit. Can’t really make this stuff up.
Last edited by FTFFv2; 03-14-2018 at 03:15 PM. Reason: Typo
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