UPS 2023 Hiring
 

**Mods, please pin to top - thx***

Welcome to the 2023 Hiring thread!

Like last year, noting concrete to report unfortunately.


What we know:

Class slots have been offered out to March and possibly April so far.

31 Mandatory Retirements in 2023 (actual is always higher)

28 767’s arrive between 2023-26

Possible that 2 x 747 options are exercised.

Uncertainties:

MD phase out, no replacement (beyond current 76 increases).

MD replacement - A350

Corporate plans for 2023 - this is highlighted by recent system bid which only offered less than 30 Captain openings on 767. Highly speculated this bid will provide the vacancies for Dec/JAN new hire classes.

Once (and IF) a bigger system bid opens after peak, say early January’ish, we will have a better picture of

UPS’s 2023 hiring goals.

As Always, please keep posts here on point. If you want to argue, start a different thread. This thread is for people interested in getting hired at UPS and it’s a big help if they don’t have to scroll past hundreds of useless posts.

Thx all and good luck!

The MD11 replacement on international routes might not be the A350 so I would amend that part. Could range from nothing to more 747s, 777s, A350s, A330s or more 767s.

The A350F isn't scheduled for entry into service until 2025, the 777-8F until 2027. Don't think either will play a factor into 2023 hiring here or anywhere else.

No airframe not already on property will factor into 2023 hiring, since it would take a couple years to stand up everything needed for a new to us fleet. It might impact bidding, since the potential of seat locks being released early might encourage some speculative bidding. My crystal ball says ~300 new hires this year. Good luck to everyone!

My best guesstimate is around 200:

7x767 @ 6 crewmembers per plane* = 42
2 747s = 14
31 mandatory retirements
—————-
87 bare min

add:
30 extra retirements
50-75 catchup hiring
——————

*someone posted average #crewmembers/plane, I don’t remember what the actual numbers are.

Should be higher than that, probably around 6-7 crews per plane.

6-7 crews (12-14 pilots) for the 76, slightly higher for the 74 is correct. Two scenarios:

1) No displacements…
7 767 x 12 pilots/plane = 84
Mandatory + early = 80
Catch up = 50
TOTAL just over 200

2) 4-5 MD displacement
Same but reduce by about 70-80
So 120-130 total

So between 12 and 18 a month for the year is my best guess, maybe up to 20. Add a few if we do finalize the purchase of 2 -8’s from Qatar. I heavily doubt we see more than this. This is why we can be so selective vs United hiring 300-400 a month (for example), and why UPS labor will never admit they have a talent acquisition problem and also why they treat applicants the way they do.

Some head scratching people are getting hired at the Legacies, not so here.

So 7 new airframes = 84, but a loss of 4 or 5 = 70 to 80? That’s some fuzzy math before considering the captain side is short and there are still retirements on the MD. 3 on the table as we speak last I looked. You definitely seem to be skewing things as far to the negative side as you can.

757/767 is currently staffed about 10.3 pilots/airframe...MD11 is about 9.3 pilots/airframe.

Eight 767s are slated to enter service in 2023 - seven factory new jets and the recently acquired pax aircraft which gets converted next year.

Well, maybe I wasn’t clear. If they do displace, it will be a wash, those guys will go to new 76’s, so no new hires required, hence 70-80 less new hires. Not skewing anything, simple math, it’s not rocket science.

Mandatory Retirements as of Nov 22

Year #
2023 = 31
24 = 72
25 = 81
26 = 123
27 = 132
28 = 187
29 = 179
2030 = 168
31 = 161
32 = 157
33 = 160
2034 = 129

1590 Mandatory gone by beginning of 2035 - that’s half the current pilot group.

I don’t know about you, but half the pilot group in 12-13 years is not very impressive. And even worse we’re gonna have to wait until 2026 to see any real movement. For the average guy getting hired mid 40’s, not so impressive. For the yuppies, Z, late 20’s/early 30’s much better.

Oh, my math could be wrong, but 1,590 out of 3,480 or so is not 50%, just saying.

We can agree on one thing. You look at everything from a ray of sunshine, I look at things more like UPS, more gray clouds, challenges. IMO it is a more realistic way of looking at things. Hope is not a strategy in this industry unfortunately.

C2078, provide data or useful insights. We are trying to keep crap like off this thread so potential new hires don’t have to waste their time reading through useless posts.

Re: Sim center in SDF

https://www.wlky.com/amp/article/ups...tucky/41958783

There he goes again. C2078 with all the doom and gloom. Every single post.

For prospective UPS pilots:

• UPS has grown by 53 airframes and over 900 pilots since 1Jan17...22% in airframes and 35% in pilots.
• Eight additional 767s will enter service as Browntails in 2023, seven factory new aircraft and a recently acquired passenger aircraft that needs conversion.
• Speculation is some yet-to-be-announced number of MD11s will be idled/parked in 2023. Exactly half of the current MD fleet, which grew by five airframes in the last two years, has Pratt engines with time-limited components that cost a LOT to overhaul.
• Q2 and Q3'22 financial statements show two 747-8 "on option", management pilots are telling people these are factory freighters currently in operation elsewhere.
• Actual retirements have well exceeded mandatory figures over the last several years, pulling forward and flattening the mandatory retirement curve.
• There were 35 mandatory retirements in 2022; the "plug" on 1Jan22 has moved up 110 numbers through the first ten months of the year.
• 1994 hires hit 30 years of service in 2023, and 30 years of service maxes out the defined benefit.
• Nearly 40% of the existing pilot group mandatory retires in the next decade.

I think he is providing a useful point. A lot of people like to point out that losing half the pilot group in ten years is something to get excited about. This isn’t Delta and our new hires are significantly older than the ones at the pax carriers. Sure 1590 pilots will be gone in ten years but the average new hire will be more than half way through his/her tenure here at UPS at that point.

There are sexier retirement numbers elsewhere at airlines with day time flying, without credit caps, and
better schedule flexibility.

I posted those numbers as a quick reference for those interested in coming here. I stopped at an arbitrary number and included the “about half the list,” thing simply to provide a little context for the numbers. Inferences made by certain posters are simply that.

If the purpose of this thread is truly to be informative to prospective new hire pilots then you have to give the bad along with the good. You’re not professional recruiters working on the hiring team who are supposed to hide the bad stuff. There are a lot of great things about being a pilot for UPS. However, there are things that are also not so great when you compare us against the legacy carriers. We have people no-showing new hire classes for a reason. Just make sure that the prospective candidates know EVERYTHING about working here and not only the positive things that you want to brag about just to make yourself feel better about your career; which every pilot LOVES to do…

^^^^^This is on point^^^^^ So true no matter where you are. Knowing the good and bad from everyone’s perspective is great data mining. Outsiders have their own priorities not ours and need to make the most educated decision for themselves and their families, etc. Really no excuse this day and age for choosing very poorly. Granted you don’t know what you don’t about yourself until subject to the lifestyle you’ve chosen. Especially be aware of the last sentence from MidwestMaster!

Am I doing something wrong? When I go to apply, it requires me to search the job title and location. I type all the keywords I could think of that would relate to pilot and yet nothing comes up. I know it might be because applications aren’t being accepted right now but why would it say that they are on airline Pilot hiring sites?

Pretty sure the next window won’t open until January.

Ups doesn't like to share their 1900's technology. So trust no other website.

Application
 

Does anyone know how to get an existing inactive application completely deleted so one can start over?

Class Date
 

Has anyone who interviewed in the past month or two received a class date? If so what day did you interview and what class date? I know a few that have interviewed and its been silent from the company since. Just trying to get an idea of how long we could be waiting to find out if we even passed the whole process.

No, but you can put in a brand new one after the new year if the application window is open. It’s my understanding the system purges all old apps after the new year.

I know this doesn't answer your question, but I interviewed on the 10th of November and am still waiting for a go/no-go.

I am also waiting and I Interviewed early November. Good luck! Hoping to hear something sooner rather than later.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks and good luck to you both! I interviewed Nov 1st and nothing yet. If anyone here’s anything could you please be awesome and let us know. The waiting is not the most fun lol

It took me about 13 days before I received a letter. Sat in the pool for another six months before finally getting the call. Don’t ask me how people are selected. That’s a secret sauce.

9/14 interview
10/5 “You were successful with the interview” email
Not a peep since then

Keep hearing ATL has not finalized staffing plans for 2023 and it’s not expected before January. That means no classes will be scheduled or filled until then.

Typical disclaimer that this may be completely inaccurate and/or change.

What did you do while in the pool? I supposed you stayed with the company you were with at the time? I have a hard date for my exit from my present job, so sitting in a pool for 6 months wouldn't be awesome. Hoping to not have to take a "plan B" CJO just to leave them if/when UPS comes through.

Actually I resigned as soon as I received the letter. As I came from the Middle East and wanted to start the clock. As we’re required to give 90 day notice. Otherwise I’d owe the company money to resign. So I used the time to just RELAX. But by month 4&5 ,definitely was getting nervous.

Is the December class canceled?

Vacancy Bid results:

Captains:

Junior upgrade (MIA CPT) was august 2016 hire. Junior on fleet is Jan 2017.

Junior CPT SDF 757 domestic award was July 2016 hire. Junior on fleet is Feb 2017.

Junior CPT Z (757/67 intl) award was March 2005 hire. Junior on fleet is Jan 2017 hire.

The rest of the captain movement was amongst the senior, pre 2007 hire folks.

Here’s the rest of the list of junior captains.
SDF 747 junior CPT = Feb 2007
ANC 747 = OCT 2007
MD11 = Feb 2015
ONT = Feb 2017
A300 (SDF) = May 2017


For the FO’s:

A bunch of brand new hires from ONT jumped over to SDF (757),

Junior MIA FO was May 2022 hire and is most junior on fleet.

Junior MD11 award was May 2021 hire. Junior on fleet is Aug 2022

Junior 74 ANC was March 2021 hire. Junior on fleet is Nov 2022 hire.

Junior SDFZ (75/767 intl) was a Feb 2019 hire. Junior on fleet is Oct 2022.

Junior SDF 74 FO was May 2007 hire. Junior on fleet is Feb 2022 hire

———————————————-
Note: this was a small bid with some weird dynamics going on. A lot of movement in MIA. ANC guys are starting to migrate out for schedule reasons, upgrades going more senior than in the past. Z (SDF 75/767 international) went really senior in both seats.

As I understand it, this bid opens up vacancies for the Dec and Jan new hire classes. It is not clear how long they can go adding people without running another vacancy bid but speculation is that it is not long. Thus, we are expecting another bid sooner than later in 2023.

No other news or rumors to report.

No….at least not yet

Re: Dec classes cancelled.

They aren’t going to cancel classes. Here’s a recap of p1 of this thread:

Boiler updated it to 8 767 deliveries in 2023 so at 10/plane thats 80 needed. Add 30 for mandatory retirements and we are looking at 110 minimum. I’ve heard possibly 2-5 MDs going into storage in 2023 so that brings us down to 65. That’s the absolute bare minimum to maintain the status quo. Add early
retirements, firings, medical outs, new hires leaving, and whatever catchup on staffing we still need to do and you’re easily looking at more.

However, as my vacancy bid results post insinuated - things are slowing.

I was told by an ACP the most recent bid only made enough spots for the December class. Another bid is needed for the January class according to him. YMMV

Union has confirmed Jan and Feb classes… need a system bid? who knows
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