Forum won’t let me post a new thread so forgive me for hijacking this one.
Currently at Purple but each time I talk to my friend at Brown I get more and more curious.
50% of brown pilots retiring in the next ten years starting next year (forced retirements obviously, who knows how many leave early). Live in southern IN so while IND is great at Purple, it’s turning into a very senior base and even more senior as captain. Only 1.5 hrs from SDF (possibility of moving to CLT next year for wife’s job so SDF to CLT prob not bad.) Doubtful purple closes Indy but they could where sdf will be there as long as UPS is around.
While purple has a lot of retirements as well, there’s not talk anymore of growing the airline (obviously could just be quiet because of negotiations.)
Sounds like brown has some great soft pay so the pay rates are almost even.
Friend has been at brown for 4 years and already 50% on the 75/76 flying international. People here for 4 years are still doing night hub turns…
Purple ceo has said he wants to sub contract more so our product is going downhill.
So trying to learn more about brown. No airline is perfect obviously and seems like give and take at both places.

UPS has to actually be hiring to get hired there. I think the big growth wave is over at brown and the attrition is not any higher percentage wise at brown than purple. UPS has guys in a pool already and is still granting LOAs. Apply next January (maybe) and see what happens I guess

We were supposed to have 29 age 65 retirements and so far 62 have left in 5 months, so you can comfortably add 30 percent to any announced retirements, 6 yrs here gets you almost 40-50 % up the list, I think this along with our retirement would be much more desirable than FedEx, if you desire international you can probably do it on the first seat bid

I would not leave FDX for UPS, especially before FDX has a TA. UPS isn't currently hiring, so that is a moot point.

I don't see FDX closing the IND domicile.

The most senior January 2019 UPS hire is at 66.2% of our seniority list, not sure where that same person would be at FDX.

completely agree. Waiting on strike vote and TA to see how things unfold and obviously aware UPS is not actively hiring.
But with FedEx seeming to align itself more like UPS, more retirements at UPS percentage wise, and living relatively close to SDF which is browns version of MEM, it creates alot of curiosity for me.

Our product is seemingly going downhill while everyone praises UPS quality. Million dollar pay rates mean nothing here if scope is lousy and quality tanks for stock holders.

Those reasons are what makes brown very intriguing to me (whenever hiring resumes)

I will preface this by saying that back in 2017 I had the choice between FedEx and UPS. I chose UPS. I didn’t have all the knowledge of today back then so the decision was more of a guess. But looking back on it, I am 💯 sure that I chose the best path. There are a number of people at UPS that just think Fedex is the best place to be and can do no wrong. In my opinion, there viewpoint is outdated and if they did more research they would understand that it’s no longer the FedEx on the early 2000’s.

I can’t speak to what path is best for you but for the things that you have already mentioned, it seems like you know what it might be. FedEx will always be a “good” company to work for but it’s not what it used to be. I think the main difference between us and you is that we’ve been trending up for quite a few years and you’ve been trending down for the same time period. I would say the biggest deal breaker is ALPA vs. IPA. The IPA is the best thing to ever happen to UPS. The gavel corrupts and ALPA has always been a prime example of that. It doesn’t matter how many contracts either of us get in the future, but I would be willing to bet over my career that the IPA will alway come up on top vs. the ALPA MEC at FedEx. Good luck and I hope it works out for you whichever way you go. But the blanket statement of saying “no way you should leave FedEx” days are over.

Not about which is “better:” ALPA wasn’t what UPS pilots needed in the beginning nor is ALPA a better fit for them now. Let’s not tangent into a useless alpa vs non alpa text vomit here.

Bottom line is that FX’s contract hasn’t changed since Delta’s TA passed, just their perception of themselves (and their superiority). Yeah, the short term future is going to suck for a portion of their pilot group but long term hasn’t changed = great. Jumping ship depends on seniority accrued at FX vs. getting a better (long term) deal elsewhere. Too many variables to suggest a general solution.

AFA coming to brown, it’s lateral move. Contracts, lifestyle, etc very similar. Drive to SDF from IND a big plus and Sdf ain’t going anywhere as a domicile. 1st year pay is a downside. And what you don’t like about Fx2.0 (lean op, toxic relationship with mgmt) has been the status quo at brown since the beginning. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Good luck.

So, what is the current average 5X retirement age at?

If it starts to dip below established averages consistently...one should ask....why?

62.1...likely because our defined benefit pension, which passenger carriers don't have, caps at 30 years of service.