My sources were the rumors about that letter and talk from people in the school house unrelated to the letter. Hopefully the latter gets clarified as well.

Why do we need a fleet refresh? If it wasn’t for the pratt problem the MDs would be good for another decade (of which there was mention of keeping the GEs as a small boutique fleet). And, from the horses mouth: they are in the process of replacing the MDs, partially by 767s and the rest will be from a yet to be determined new aircraft. The 400s and 75s don’t need to go right now either.

No, I think ATL knows what they’re doing here. For now….

There are 16 GE MD's and 5 Pratts that are good to go, that is half the fleet of 42 at the end of 2022 (2 parked now) that can haul a bunch and park on any spot in any gateway. I think that gives them a longer life than most expect, and engineers are still working on a less expensive fix for the remaining Pratt MDs. Everything will move at a glacial pace, and with the newest 76 delivery issues, the glacier will move even slower now.

Well, I won’t be around for the full fleet refresh if it ever happens, so it doesn’t affect me, but it just definitely concern the younger folks. No plan in place, nothing shared with the IPA, complete darkness. Half our 75’s 30 years old, basically a quarter or more of our fleet 30 years old. Need to be around 55-60% on the seniority list to upgrade, etc, I definitely would not want to come to this place.

Of course a refresh will happen..just because we don’t know the plan doesn’t mean there isn’t one

Just curious what was the great attraction that brought you to UPS?

No plan in place: shopping for wide-bodies is a multi year process. As previously stated, higher ups have stated they are in the latter stages of that for the MD fleet replacement. More rumors going about that an announcement is coming Q2.

Nothing shared with IPA: not necessarily. EB is often bound by non-disclosure agreements…

…complete darkness: SEC rules prevent the company sharing information as much as we would otherwise like them too.

I agree the Air District of UPS* is a complete mess in almost every aspect and it doesn’t help that ATL** meddles where they shouldn’t be more often than necessary, but overall, ATL has been holding their own lately, IMVHO.

For non-brownies:
* Air district is essentially the airline of UPS. It’s a completely separate entity from the rest of the company in an organizational and operational perspective.

** ATL is corporate HQ for UPS.

I definitely would not want to come to this place: UPS is still a solid option for those whose wants and needs can be met with a gig here. It’s a good career that pays well even if it’s not the fastest upgrade or employer of the year. No pressing need to upgrade with our flat rate for fleet types and higher FO pay rates. Also, Delta has hired a lot of young aviators over the last few years. UPS, almost the opposite. That will play a big factor in seniority progression comparisons. Our health benefits are miles ahead of theirs and all the legacies for that matter. That can be a huge player for some people. I’d wait to see what the economy does over the next year or two and what our next contract brings before writing this place off.

The night flying and constant circadian shifts here do suck. Get senior, conflict bid and maximize OCV***, fly schedules giving you max time o************ and life will be good.

***OCV is vacation utilization options that can create a lot of time off for just a week or two of vacation time used.

**** We have skeds that can give you more time at home. Eg. Week on-off trips with CMLs at both ends which you can play the game to basically “work 5 on, 9 off” if your seniority allows.

Very useful perspectives, thank you!

I didn't know a new contract was under discussion; is there a projected timeline?

I just got hired last year, and just want to thank you , all the information that I got from you from day one in this forum was spot on. Keep the good work, for some of us it was not an easy decision to ditch our previous life and come here, I'm really happy I made the change.Thanks for helping to make a balanced decision and the time and effort you put on every post.

My very educated guess is in about 6-7 years. We just signed a 2 year extension and add probably 5 years on to that.

I agree. With the growing want list on both sides, the next negotiation will take a long time.