Originally Posted by Brownose74

funny thing is justinsane is a HUGE yea voter for the FedEx TA. Ironically now she’s defending the no vote LOL. Guy looks more like a clown everyday. Definitely has gone down the deep end.

Originally Posted by ClncClarence

Watching Justin try to argue with Boiler is like watching the Park County Pee Wee hockey team play the Detroit Red Wings.

Originally Posted by skek

What makes you think it won’t be a signing bonus like the last 2 contracts?

Originally Posted by 767pilot

Everything is negotiable. It can depend on how badly one side or the other wants to sell the thing

Originally Posted by BoilerUP

I do think the extensions were a good thing, given the specific circumstances at the time each was ratified. Knowning what I know now, I would still vote in favor of both again tomorrow as I believe our position to achieve parity is better than where FDX currently lies.

Do I wish the extensions had higher percentage raises, especially 2022? Yes, but they were contract extensions not full-term contracts and they didn't. Do I wish they had other times besides pay/pension (and vacation language in 2020)? Yes, but they were contract extensions not full-term contracts and they didn't.

Of COURSE what happens at UPS impacts FDX and what happens at FDX impacts UPS, ever said otherwise...but what happens elsewhere in the industry matters too. I think you are trying to "ah-ha!" us on our 2021 payrate (ratified in early 2020) while absolving yourself on 2023 payrates (ratified earlier that year) without regard to what happened in between.

So STIPULATED, Extension 2020 didn't immediately achieve an industry leading payrate - though it did in Extension 2020's final year.

Contract 2016 had its last raise on 1Sept20 of $337.56. Extension 2020 brought that up 4% to $351.16 on 1Sept21, which was $2.69/0.77% behind Delta's 1Jan19 A350 rate of $353.85. Yup, we didn't raise the bar on that 4% extension, but we did come in at $361.69 for 1Sept22 which was industry leading at that time. Then later the Company said they weren't going to talk to us during Teamsters, which lead to Extension 2022 which took that industry leading 1Sept22 payrate and increased it 4%/3.25%/3.25% - not earth shattering by any means especially given COVID, but raising the bar for the industry all the same.

I would submit if FDX's TA2023 DOS WB rate only lagged the industry leading rates by 0.77%, it would have overwhelmingly passed regardless of scope, R24 to R16, retirement splitting, etc. Instead, FDX TA2023 DOS WB rates lagged the industry leader by 8.38% ($35.01/hr), to say nothing of the gap between FDX NB rates and Delta 757/321 rates.

This ain't the droid you're looking for Broseph, but I'll leave you the last word on the topic...

Originally Posted by JustInFacts

You are right, we should be working together. The discussion was about retro pay, and you decided to bring up Fedex and what we are going through. If you don't think that your "industry leading" rates had any impact, that is your opinion. That fact is, Delta's 2019 rate was higher than your 2021 rate that you agreed to in 2020. In 2022, Delta's rate adjusted for inflation would have been $415 when your TA/extension came out. Yet, it was overwhelmingly approved even though your top rate in 2025 was below the inflation adjusted Delta rate for 2022. My opinion is that wasn't industry leading.

It is funny to see some on here who stated in 2022 that the 2020 extension was a mistake and now defend it (not you Boiler). I hope you are able to negotiate a 2025 rate that exceeds the current rates at the legacies. If not, I hope your 2026 rate exceeds their $474 rate and you get retro or a signing bonus that makes up for the difference since 2023. You will have known those rates for 18 months+, so there shouldn't be an issue with exceeding them.

Originally Posted by Grease

Adjusted for inflation?

Originally Posted by BoilerUP

FDX's Contract 2015 had the Nov 2020 top rate at $335.56; their TA2023 top payrate effective Aug 2023 would have been $382.53
https://imgur.com/ELvbRnp
https://i.imgur.com/ELvbRnp.jpeg

FDX ALPA failed to not only match actual Delta payrates ratified months earlier in full-term contract TA, they came 3.5% short of adjusting their current payrate for inflation at DOS.

But hey, that's really neither here nor there...FDX ALPA is negotiating an eventual TA2, and the IPA is now negotiating a future Contract 202x. Here's to hoping both pilot groups can give their leaders/negotiators the support necessary to attain industry-leading agreements that pattern off the passenger contracts ratfied in 2023.

Originally Posted by JustInFacts

Not disputing that, however, you conveniantly left out that IPA presented you with a second contract extension in 2022. Your 2020 pay rate adjusted for inflation in June of 2022 would have been $384. The industry leading extension that you approved in 2022 had a September 2023 pay rate of $375, which is below your inflation adjusted pay rate from 2020 a year later.

It's nice of you to point to fedex to justify your problems, however it isn't new. UPS has blamed Fedex for their rates before, even though UPS had their TA first. Funny how it only works one way.

I'll leave the last word for you Brosef. I,,, actually mean it.