If I may…..

 

According to posts on this forum, you got your first TA contract extension in February 2020. That was at the very beginning of COVID. The shutdowns didn't start until March. So when you got that TA, you knew that you wouldn't be allowed to negotiate because of a pandemic that was in its early stages? In that thread, most reasons for agreeing were that UPS wouldn't negotiate until the teamsters settled their contract that came up in the summer of 2023.

As far as pattern bargaining goes, if you were pattern bargaining, shouldn't your 2021 rate have been higher than Delta's 2019 rate? Using your logic, Fedex could take a $420 rate and 3% raises through 2029, and claim the same thing you are. That 2029 rate would be the highest in the industry, though it would be 3 years after Delta. Everyone could pattern bargain off of that. IPA wasn't able to deliver higher rates until they were stale by 45 months.

I hope the best for you guys. Ideally, you would get a new contract this fall that exceeded Delta's. Then Fedex couldn't use your last two contract extensions as industry standard.

 

UPS Extension 2020 payrates became industry leading in Sept 2022, and Extension 2022 payrates patterned off of Extension 2020 rates and as of mid-2022 were industry leading through Sept 2025.

Delta AIP'd industry-leading payrates in all categories in December 2022, and ratified a full-term TA with those payrates on March 1st, 2023.

Three months later in June 2023, the FDX MEC voted in favor of sending a full-term TA out for MEMRAT that contained DOS Narrowbody payrates that were 1.6% lower than Delta 738/A320 payrates and Widebody payrates that were 8.38% lower than Delta B764-A350 payrates...payrates which later went up 2% based upon UAL's AIP which became TA2 in July 2023.

You can point a finger at UPS contract extensions as "industry standard" that somehow drug FDX negotiations down all you wat, but that doesn't change the reality that FDX ALPA didn't pattern bargain off the industry-leading rates established by DAL ALPA earlier that year. And that's paying zero mind to the fact that if UPS hadn't have gotten either extension, we'd have been practically right alongside your top WB rate at $337.65.

To be clear, nobody is saying our extensions were awesome...but to achieve parity with Delta/UAL top widebody rates *today*, FDX needs a DOS increase of 33.28% while UPS needs 18.9%.

Good luck to us all.

 

The rates Fedex needs to increase by 33% were negotiated 9 years ago while the rates UPS needs to increase were negotiated 2 years ago. Stop pointing to Fedex as the reason you took substandard rates in 2020. Stop blaming the NMB and teamsters. The difference is you took those rates, and the pilots at Fedex said NO!

 

Literally nobody has said or done that.

Literally nobody has said or done that.

Describing the external factor of a likely NLRB Teamsters strike in summer 2023 that no passenger carrier or FDX had to deal with, or looking in hindsight at the very real impact that a global pandemic would have had on contract negotiations starting "on time" in September 2020, isn't "blame". We don't have to like those realities, and none of us did, but that doesn't change the fact they were realities.

FDX pilots said NO to a TA containing payrates below the industry-leading rates established THREE MONTHS BEFORE THE FDX TA WAS ANNOUNCED, whereas IPA Extension 2022 payrates were industry leading when ratified.

This differs from you, who has previously and evidently continues to blame IPA pilots and two overwhelmingly (90%+) ratified extensions for FDX's TA2023 payrates which substantially lagged Delta ALPA rates ratified three months earlier.

You don't like our extensions, okay fine, good thing you don't work under them but don't blame those rates while ignoring the substantially higher rates ratified by Delta between IPA Extension 2022 and FDX TA2023.

I feel like I speak for all IPA pilots when I say we hope you get a solid TA2 that earns an overwhelming YES vote...and I'm pretty confident that is the objective of the IPA EB/NC.

 

You literally have been pointing to those as reasons the extensions were good.

You continue to ignore that your pattern bargaining agreed to a rate in 2021 that was below Delta's 2019 rate.

If you think that what UPS does has no affect on Fedex, then why did so many of your pilots care what we were doing in our contract negotiations? Why even mention us in your contract convo thread?

You point to a TA (that got rejected) that was agreed to 5 months after Delta approved their contract, yet fail to point out that your ontract extension came 1+ years after Delts's January 2019 (negotiated in 2016) rate and you did not exceed it until the last part of 2022.

 

Im not sure why you are inserting yourself in this conversation, but the reality is the Teamsters are a big deal to UPS and national politics. I don’t necessarily see things the way our EB does with respect to trying simultaneously negotiate, but they made a judgment call and the majority (by a wide margin) backed their call. While I think we might have been able to do better, I do agree with Boiler that it’s not necessarily the most productive of rabbit holes. Unfortunately, for FedEx ALPA members your MEC made a poor judgement call that your membership rejected. With some hard work and time you will get your contract amended to where it should be and everyone (outside of FedEx and UPS management) wishes you well.

 

I do think the extensions were a good thing, given the specific circumstances at the time each was ratified. Knowning what I know now, I would still vote in favor of both again tomorrow as I believe our position to achieve parity is better than where FDX currently lies.

Do I wish the extensions had higher percentage raises, especially 2022? Yes, but they were contract extensions not full-term contracts and they didn't. Do I wish they had other times besides pay/pension (and vacation language in 2020)? Yes, but they were contract extensions not full-term contracts and they didn't.

Of COURSE what happens at UPS impacts FDX and what happens at FDX impacts UPS, ever said otherwise...but what happens elsewhere in the industry matters too. I think you are trying to "ah-ha!" us on our 2021 payrate (ratified in early 2020) while absolving yourself on 2023 payrates (ratified earlier that year) without regard to what happened in between.

So STIPULATED, Extension 2020 didn't immediately achieve an industry leading payrate - though it did in Extension 2020's final year.

Contract 2016 had its last raise on 1Sept20 of $337.56. Extension 2020 brought that up 4% to $351.16 on 1Sept21, which was $2.69/0.77% behind Delta's 1Jan19 A350 rate of $353.85. Yup, we didn't raise the bar on that 4% extension, but we did come in at $361.69 for 1Sept22 which was industry leading at that time. Then later the Company said they weren't going to talk to us during Teamsters, which lead to Extension 2022 which took that industry leading 1Sept22 payrate and increased it 4%/3.25%/3.25% - not earth shattering by any means especially given COVID, but raising the bar for the industry all the same.

I would submit if FDX's TA2023 DOS WB rate only lagged the industry leading rates by 0.77%, it would have overwhelmingly passed regardless of scope, R24 to R16, retirement splitting, etc. Instead, FDX TA2023 DOS WB rates lagged the industry leader by 8.38% ($35.01/hr), to say nothing of the gap between FDX NB rates and Delta 757/321 rates.

This ain't the droid you're looking for Broseph, but I'll leave you the last word on the topic...

 

How dare the IPA inconvenience the, “best pilots in the industry!”

 

funny thing is justinsane is a HUGE yea voter for the FedEx TA. Ironically now she’s defending the no vote LOL. Guy looks more like a clown everyday. Definitely has gone down the deep end.