Why a Pilot Should Want to Work at UPS
04-10-2015, 07:28 AM
#171
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 90
Shaggy
There's not much of my post that was directed at you; even as I used your quote as the basis of the post. I don't put you in the sniveling entitled group. Which is what most of the post concerned itself with.
What caught my eye was how in effect the naysayers had completely missed the mark after decades of dealing with UPS that was being painfully pointed out to them now. That they had somehow not seen the truth of UPS after years of getting kicked in the jimmys. And that now they were seeing the truth that they had been missing all along.
The next year or so of heated negotiations will hopefully show just how much the, "elder statesmen", have not been blind to jimmy smacks. Because UPS hasn't even begun to ramp up their real version of jimmy smacks. And the naysayers/elder statesmen might appear a little different as they sum it up as ops normal for this place and go about doing their job. UPS has even started the negotiations nonsense; ie, it's going to get much worse.
I didn't like the inference that the naysayers/elder statesmen didn't know what UPS was all about.
People will need to know what, "no waivers no favors", in the coming year means. Some are acting on that premise today. And they are standup guys.
There's not much of my post that was directed at you; even as I used your quote as the basis of the post. I don't put you in the sniveling entitled group. Which is what most of the post concerned itself with.
What caught my eye was how in effect the naysayers had completely missed the mark after decades of dealing with UPS that was being painfully pointed out to them now. That they had somehow not seen the truth of UPS after years of getting kicked in the jimmys. And that now they were seeing the truth that they had been missing all along.
The next year or so of heated negotiations will hopefully show just how much the, "elder statesmen", have not been blind to jimmy smacks. Because UPS hasn't even begun to ramp up their real version of jimmy smacks. And the naysayers/elder statesmen might appear a little different as they sum it up as ops normal for this place and go about doing their job. UPS has even started the negotiations nonsense; ie, it's going to get much worse.
I didn't like the inference that the naysayers/elder statesmen didn't know what UPS was all about.
People will need to know what, "no waivers no favors", in the coming year means. Some are acting on that premise today. And they are standup guys.
04-10-2015, 12:05 PM
#172
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,339
Unity is Strength!
.
More unity here would've been nice.
Half-full or half-empty, senior, junior, happy, miserable or just content, we're all in this together.
Being a half-full person - maybe the FDX - TNT deal is good for us all? Fred probably wants to get support from his pilots in this deal because surely there'll be some road blocks and he'll need them all to step up and pitch in when unexpected situations arise. Maybe they'll stop harassing their pilots as much (ie, sick calls, unrealistic airfares, etc.?) and maybe they'll get better CGN and HKG stipends and conditions? Some other improvements? Who knows? If Fred wants their support he might give in and let them have a contract before ours? That'd probably help us?
Either way, this might be just wishful thinking BUT we need more unity here. Amongst our own AND amongst our groups, fdx and ups.
Everyone should stay informed on the negotiations and we all should watch EB's video updates! We can't be asking for improvements if we're willing to foresake what we already have. No special deals just because it helps "you," no waivers, no favors. Be professional, courteous, knowledgable and follow the contract! No more and no less!
They're working very hard for us all. The least we can do is to show more unity.
.
More unity here would've been nice.
Half-full or half-empty, senior, junior, happy, miserable or just content, we're all in this together.
Being a half-full person - maybe the FDX - TNT deal is good for us all? Fred probably wants to get support from his pilots in this deal because surely there'll be some road blocks and he'll need them all to step up and pitch in when unexpected situations arise. Maybe they'll stop harassing their pilots as much (ie, sick calls, unrealistic airfares, etc.?) and maybe they'll get better CGN and HKG stipends and conditions? Some other improvements? Who knows? If Fred wants their support he might give in and let them have a contract before ours? That'd probably help us?
Either way, this might be just wishful thinking BUT we need more unity here. Amongst our own AND amongst our groups, fdx and ups.
Everyone should stay informed on the negotiations and we all should watch EB's video updates! We can't be asking for improvements if we're willing to foresake what we already have. No special deals just because it helps "you," no waivers, no favors. Be professional, courteous, knowledgable and follow the contract! No more and no less!
They're working very hard for us all. The least we can do is to show more unity.
.
04-13-2015, 11:20 AM
#173
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 90
Whalesurfer,
Overall we are very unified IMHO. There are a few that feel entitled. I think you can count them on fingers and toes. There's always that 1%.
Hiring has resumed at UPS. Of course not without a fight. Ops normal here.
108% IPA good day.
Overall we are very unified IMHO. There are a few that feel entitled. I think you can count them on fingers and toes. There's always that 1%.
Hiring has resumed at UPS. Of course not without a fight. Ops normal here.
108% IPA good day.
04-13-2015, 12:16 PM
#174
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Driver side
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by flyphisher
Whalesurfer,
Overall we are very unified IMHO. There are a few that feel entitled. I think you can count them on fingers and toes. There's always that 1%.
Hiring has resumed at UPS. Of course not without a fight. Ops normal here.
108% IPA good day.
Overall we are very unified IMHO. There are a few that feel entitled. I think you can count them on fingers and toes. There's always that 1%.
Hiring has resumed at UPS. Of course not without a fight. Ops normal here.
108% IPA good day.
04-13-2015, 12:22 PM
#175
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,339
.
Thanks, just found out. I agree with you on our unity; the hiring announcement is great news indeed!
108% IPA!
.....
Delay Over; UPS Resumes Hiring
Vacancy Bid to be Posted Today
Today UPS announced that it would proceed with the hiring of the pilots who were originally slated to begin training at the end of March and April. New class dates will be set for the end of April and the end of May.
“This is the right decision for UPS and the right decision for the pilot group. The IPA Executive Board applauds UPS in making the decision to move ahead with hiring these crewmembers.”
A bid will be posted today which will allow IPA members to bid these new positions. Unfilled positions will then be assigned to the incoming new IPA members.
Fraternally,
IPA Executive Board
Originally Posted by flyphisher
Whalesurfer,
...
Hiring has resumed at UPS. Of course not without a fight. Ops normal here.
108% IPA good day.
...
Hiring has resumed at UPS. Of course not without a fight. Ops normal here.
108% IPA good day.
Thanks, just found out. I agree with you on our unity; the hiring announcement is great news indeed!
108% IPA!
.....
Delay Over; UPS Resumes Hiring
Vacancy Bid to be Posted Today
Today UPS announced that it would proceed with the hiring of the pilots who were originally slated to begin training at the end of March and April. New class dates will be set for the end of April and the end of May.
“This is the right decision for UPS and the right decision for the pilot group. The IPA Executive Board applauds UPS in making the decision to move ahead with hiring these crewmembers.”
A bid will be posted today which will allow IPA members to bid these new positions. Unfilled positions will then be assigned to the incoming new IPA members.
Fraternally,
IPA Executive Board
05-18-2021, 05:18 AM
#178
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
About 3 years from the last bump, time again for those considering throwing their hat in the ring and performing due diligence.
A LOT has changed since 2014, both here at UPS and in the industry/economy at large, but the gist of OP's post remains accurate.
A LOT has changed since 2014, both here at UPS and in the industry/economy at large, but the gist of OP's post remains accurate.
05-18-2021, 09:38 AM
#179
Occasional box hauler
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,684
Originally Posted by flyphisher
Hello All,
First time poster. We’ve all been reading with anticipation UPS hiring. I’ve been reading through the posts and find them to be very informative. I thought I would hazard to take your time with my own perceptions with the intention of helping. The viewpoints expressed are based on my own experiences in the airline industry both knowing the gut check of leaving the military and having flown at 4 airlines to date. I’m with UPS 19 years and a junior captain.
UPS does bear close scrutiny as a company, an airline, and above all their unique employee culture. The best way, right out of the gate, is to try to address where UPS comes from in the employee culture they have created. I will contrast this culture with our equals in the cargo world FedEx.
UPS was born in 1907 as a trucking company. UPS today is a trucking company at heart. UPS has been dealing with the largest labor union in the world (Teamsters) for 60 years +. UPS prefers dealing with unions. This gives UPS a singular target/entity to deal with. They are supreme experts, beyond anything I’ve ever experienced at any other airline (I was previous ALPA at one carrier), in dealing with their labor. Make no mistake about it, UPS is powerful, smart, and PHD level capable of handling their unions. It in my view is all business. They will not give; you must collectively fight for everything you have at UPS. Similar to buying a car, the dealerships goal is to save every penny.Your goal as the consumer is to save every penny. UPS is no different with how they deal with their unions. It's all business.
The best way to describe this mindset of both a trucking company mindset and a cost saving 900 pound gorilla is (one of many), the legendary story of the guys who started the airline in ’88 who wanted a coffee pot on the DC-8 for oceanic crossings, etc. UPS response was why? Our truck drivers do not have coffee pots. The ridiculousness of this mindset and statement is obvious.
And that’s UPS in a nutshell. Today, all of the airplanes have coffee makers. Big deal right?It is.Everything all of us see on the property now in the way of amenities……everything…..came with a fight.
Contrast that with FedEx. FedEx is an amazing company. They revolutionized the world with overnight express, and the hub and spoke system most all airlines use today. Their genesis started from a completely different mentality set forth by ex marine pilot Fred Smith. To his initial cadre pilots flying Falcons in ’73, he said, stick with me…….don’t leave me…….and I’ll make you a millionaire. The ones that stayed bled Fred and Fred was good to his word to them. Fred was very good to his pilots through the decades since. Beautiful facilities everywhere. Huge sort facility sleep rooms!These were all but dreams to us at UPS. We finally won sort facility sleep rooms maybe 5 years ago. Got them in the last contract and they took awhile to build. FedEx has had all these amenities for decades. Fred gave them what they have. Fred liked his pilots and took care of them. But times change.
Overall, FedEx hands down has better facilities and amenities. No question.
But everything comes with a cost. There is a cost to Fred Smith taking care of his pilots so famously well for decades. Today, FedEx is at a crossroads. They have had infighting amongst the purple tails, the silver tails, original loyal Fred followers (probably all retired now), the second generation devoted Fred followers, and as each generation steps back from the good ol’ days, they become part of their own tribe within the tribe. FedEx is at a crossroads because they didn’t have to fight for anything. It was given to them. And now they need to pull together to hold the line. I wish them well as we, like it or not, are separate in our contract negotiations as companies, but what each company results in will make a difference for the ones that sign their contract second.
All this FedEx talk is to better describe the UPS culture and what is unique about this company. In the case of UPS, we had zero given to us. We fought for everything. And the cost in the end, was more to the company. If you come to UPS, no matter what I or anyone else says here, on the phone, etc…..if you come to UPS, your education will start when you get hired. You will see IMHO the best, brightest, most altruistic union executive board in our independent union, the IPA. You will see them in action daily. They care solely about the safety, QOL, etc…..of an extremely unified pilot group. And that is the cost to UPS.There is not a union on the planet that is more cohesive. And not a union on the planet with better Executive Board management. And to all IPA volunteers, my hat is truly and permanently dipped in Thanks. Thousands of hours are sacrificed yearly for their tireless efforts fighting everyday the 900 pound gorilla.
So the UPS culture from a line pilot is pretty much an us vs them scenario.Which is no different from any other airline.All pilots at all airlines complain.Whether they are effective in their complaints could be debated for years.I firmly feel that to the maximum extent we can at the IPA, we are effective against a very rich, arrogant, powerful company.UPS doesn’t do anything they don’t want to do.Period dot.
How powerful is UPS?UPS has in its system every day, 6% of the GDP of the USA.Nobody in the world moves packages like UPS when taken on their system as a whole. Don’t get me wrong, FedEx is a great company.Truly a great company.
A well done retrospective on both UPS and FedEx is titled UPS/FedEx Inside the Shipping Wars on CNBC.Here’s a youtube link to it.The piece is not talking about one company being better than the other.It is solely a retrospective of each company and very worth the watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZu_gxi3sbs
The airline division at UPS isn’t even a pimple on the butt of what UPS is as a worldwide corporation and what they are trying to accomplish.We might not see their brilliance at a line pilot level.And in fact shake our head at recent failures TNT, postal, DHL.But make no mistake, as a global logistics behemoth, UPS is PHD level brilliant.They hire the best and the brightest and are a global powerhouse.And very cash rich.
As per the CNBC piece, hopefully it gives a glimpse just how advanced UPS and FedEx are in the global marketplace.
So what is the uniqueness of being a UPS employee that sets it apart from anything I’ve seen?What is the downside?The downside is their supreme arrogance.This results in their perceived (and actual) right to be just short of psychotic in their need to control.Everything.Their collective management mindset is that all their employees will try to steal from them.They therefore must be controlled and monitored at all times.
It’s their company.They can run it as they see fit.Unfortunately, that is the culture that has existed here long before I got here.
Pilots often forget a Golden Rule in the airline industry:A company doesn’t exist for their benefit.UPS will do what they want, when they want.And enjoy the fight with the IPA and all their labor unions on the property every day as a result.Make no mistake, they enjoy it.Every day at UPS…….every single day, is another day of contract negotiations.The day a contract is ratified and signed into law, ok, maybe that is a .5 day off.The next morning?It starts all over again.UPS compiles data on everything and everyone and have warehouses full of hard drive data.Every day is another day in contract negotiations.
Which brings me to a truly unpleasant manifestation of their need to control;the much talked about FQS / NURP system.This system, created, monied and carried today by UPS is an abomination to unions and the employees.Truly unique in the world.A frontal assault on unions as a, “double breasting”, operation.Born by UPS as a means to micromanage its line pilots and ultimately be a one week stop-gap strike breaker.They will all time out in a week running a skeleton operation in a strike.And that’s exactly what UPS wants them to do….fly until they can’t legally fly anymore.
This is millions of dollars…..millions……that UPS spends to get their control freak on.How long the system will be financed into the future, nobody knows.
Which brings me to my next point relating to their need to control; secrecy.UPS holds their cards VERY close to their chest.They trust nobody, including NURPs.This is why as line pilots we have zero intel as to how they are going to conduct interviews.We collectively know nothing about expansion, contraction, bases, plane orders, and on and on.We were as surprised as the rest of the industry when they announced hiring 40.You have to know how UPS operates to know that the line pilots know nothing.
Sooooooooooo…….if you have read this blather this far, what’s the point?What am I getting at?Do you come to UPS or not?
The answer is an unqualified yes.Absolutely positively yes.UPS is a great company.
Let me say another Golden Rule in aviation.A grizzled airline captain told me 23 years ago, “Son, there’s only one thing you need to look at when considering going to a company that you want to retire from; their bottom line.”.How much money does the company you are going to have vs what do they owe.UPS is a close as you will ever get to working for the US Government.To those UPS furloughed reading this, our collective hearts were with you the whole time and we are glad you are back.Don’t plan on buying any beer on layovers for a few years.Your furlough completely surprised everyone and yes yet again against a very tough company also unified us. UPS did not succeed in their quest to alienate the old vs young and we remain united today.
Having mentioned the furloughs, I stand by my statement that working for UPS is as close to working for the US Government as you will get.
And as we all know, we all won’t know if we made the right decision until we retire.But in the thought matrix of today of should I stay or should I go now…….UPS should be at the top of your list based on the bottom line alone as a company you can retire from with relative ease of minds that they will still exist when you retire.You are interviewing at a global powerhouse.A very smart, tough and rich company.They haven’t survived over 100 years because they are wilting flowers.Very much the opposite.
Remember, all pilots complain and b%^ch.Everywhere.All companies, even SWA that for years post de-regulation was a shining star and lesson to all airlines on how you could treat your employees well, pay them well, and make a decent profit, even SWA of today is complaining more and more.It’s both part of our business and apparently inherent to our pilot DNA to complain.You will be tired and probably unhappy as a junior guy no matter where you go.You might as well get paid the top in the industry along with our FedEx brethren.
I do not have a crystal ball for the future.I don’t know pax expansion, plane orders, etc.I do know that pax in general have a ton of retirements coming up.Where will you have more movement?IDK.I do know that UPS pays well, they don’t bother me on my days off, and have the hands down best bottom line in cold hard cash.They have a unique (read combative) way of managing.I won’t argue that at all.Now, have I ever had a problem with UPS management?No.I come in, do my job, go home.Play by their rules to the best of my abilities.I don’t pick fights with them as some like to do.I stand my ground but don’t poke them.You want to poke the 900 pound gorilla…..have at it.
A senior captain here told me a long time ago;you have to view yourself as a contract employee here at UPS.UPS wants one thing and one thing only from you; they want you to produce.Move boxes.They otherwise don’t care a wit about you.And I firmly believe that no other airline does as well.UPS has some quirks that do separate them from other airlines (FQS).Control issues.No question.But no company cares about you.Your union does at UPS.An INDEPENDENT union……not subject to national agendas.As much as UPS brings their quirks, the union brings on their own special blend of strengths.
But do I come to work filled with hate?Nope.Not at all.I come to work with a smile as much as any other pilot comes to work with a smile.As do my colleagues.It’s no different and you will not complain any more at UPS than you would at any other airline.No more or no less.You will have top notch guys to work with and a union behind you beyond what you’ve ever seen before.We are very cohesive for a reason…. that being UPS themselves.They do things out of the blue that continually bring us back together as a union.Remember, everything you see at UPS is there because the history of the IPA fought for it.And that came with a cost to the company in such a united union.And you know what?UPS likes it that way.
It’s business.All business.It is not personal.UPS loves the battle.It’s where they breath.And thankfully we have the union we do or they would eat us alive.And yes, other companies will do the same.UPS just brings their special brand of arrogance and control to the table.It’s all business and UPS does not exist for my benefit.They will do what they want when they want.They are rich and they are hiring.You won’t be more or less happier anywhere else you go, especially if you commute and junior.So you might as well get paid well for it.
In summary:
-the only thing that matters of a company you want to retire from is their bottom line
-there is no crystal ball
-a company does not exist for a pilots benefit
-UPS, while being tough, is a great job and we are all very lucky to be here
-UPS toughness is counterbalanced by a great union and great crews
-it is us, the line crews, that make the day to day of flying the line as pleasurable as it can be
For the poster with two years at SWA, you know and I know that seniority is everything. That is a very tough call. The only guarantee is that at least at this moment, you will make far more money at UPS. Retirements, expansion, resulting in moving up the list……..I can’t comment on which would be better. Consider what type of flying you want to do. I know for me personally….and again, it’s me personally because SWA is a great company, but for me personally 4,5,6,7 legs a day for me would get old real fast. UPS has a broad diversity of flying. Of airplanes. And routes.
My neighbor was a senior AA captain. We became friends. He had no idea about UPS. He learned over the years our contract. He was shocked beyond amazement. He had no idea. Zero. And in closing, as far as QOL, that very senior AA captain, up to the day he retired, was shooting for 1000 block hours by the end of November, so he could take December off. I have always flown a line. Always. My average block time per year is 470 again flying a full line every bid period. And I work 14-16 days a month.
Sorry for the long post. Hope everyone could hang in there and get something out of it. UPS, or any job, is what you make of it.
First time poster. We’ve all been reading with anticipation UPS hiring. I’ve been reading through the posts and find them to be very informative. I thought I would hazard to take your time with my own perceptions with the intention of helping. The viewpoints expressed are based on my own experiences in the airline industry both knowing the gut check of leaving the military and having flown at 4 airlines to date. I’m with UPS 19 years and a junior captain.
UPS does bear close scrutiny as a company, an airline, and above all their unique employee culture. The best way, right out of the gate, is to try to address where UPS comes from in the employee culture they have created. I will contrast this culture with our equals in the cargo world FedEx.
UPS was born in 1907 as a trucking company. UPS today is a trucking company at heart. UPS has been dealing with the largest labor union in the world (Teamsters) for 60 years +. UPS prefers dealing with unions. This gives UPS a singular target/entity to deal with. They are supreme experts, beyond anything I’ve ever experienced at any other airline (I was previous ALPA at one carrier), in dealing with their labor. Make no mistake about it, UPS is powerful, smart, and PHD level capable of handling their unions. It in my view is all business. They will not give; you must collectively fight for everything you have at UPS. Similar to buying a car, the dealerships goal is to save every penny.Your goal as the consumer is to save every penny. UPS is no different with how they deal with their unions. It's all business.
The best way to describe this mindset of both a trucking company mindset and a cost saving 900 pound gorilla is (one of many), the legendary story of the guys who started the airline in ’88 who wanted a coffee pot on the DC-8 for oceanic crossings, etc. UPS response was why? Our truck drivers do not have coffee pots. The ridiculousness of this mindset and statement is obvious.
And that’s UPS in a nutshell. Today, all of the airplanes have coffee makers. Big deal right?It is.Everything all of us see on the property now in the way of amenities……everything…..came with a fight.
Contrast that with FedEx. FedEx is an amazing company. They revolutionized the world with overnight express, and the hub and spoke system most all airlines use today. Their genesis started from a completely different mentality set forth by ex marine pilot Fred Smith. To his initial cadre pilots flying Falcons in ’73, he said, stick with me…….don’t leave me…….and I’ll make you a millionaire. The ones that stayed bled Fred and Fred was good to his word to them. Fred was very good to his pilots through the decades since. Beautiful facilities everywhere. Huge sort facility sleep rooms!These were all but dreams to us at UPS. We finally won sort facility sleep rooms maybe 5 years ago. Got them in the last contract and they took awhile to build. FedEx has had all these amenities for decades. Fred gave them what they have. Fred liked his pilots and took care of them. But times change.
Overall, FedEx hands down has better facilities and amenities. No question.
But everything comes with a cost. There is a cost to Fred Smith taking care of his pilots so famously well for decades. Today, FedEx is at a crossroads. They have had infighting amongst the purple tails, the silver tails, original loyal Fred followers (probably all retired now), the second generation devoted Fred followers, and as each generation steps back from the good ol’ days, they become part of their own tribe within the tribe. FedEx is at a crossroads because they didn’t have to fight for anything. It was given to them. And now they need to pull together to hold the line. I wish them well as we, like it or not, are separate in our contract negotiations as companies, but what each company results in will make a difference for the ones that sign their contract second.
All this FedEx talk is to better describe the UPS culture and what is unique about this company. In the case of UPS, we had zero given to us. We fought for everything. And the cost in the end, was more to the company. If you come to UPS, no matter what I or anyone else says here, on the phone, etc…..if you come to UPS, your education will start when you get hired. You will see IMHO the best, brightest, most altruistic union executive board in our independent union, the IPA. You will see them in action daily. They care solely about the safety, QOL, etc…..of an extremely unified pilot group. And that is the cost to UPS.There is not a union on the planet that is more cohesive. And not a union on the planet with better Executive Board management. And to all IPA volunteers, my hat is truly and permanently dipped in Thanks. Thousands of hours are sacrificed yearly for their tireless efforts fighting everyday the 900 pound gorilla.
So the UPS culture from a line pilot is pretty much an us vs them scenario.Which is no different from any other airline.All pilots at all airlines complain.Whether they are effective in their complaints could be debated for years.I firmly feel that to the maximum extent we can at the IPA, we are effective against a very rich, arrogant, powerful company.UPS doesn’t do anything they don’t want to do.Period dot.
How powerful is UPS?UPS has in its system every day, 6% of the GDP of the USA.Nobody in the world moves packages like UPS when taken on their system as a whole. Don’t get me wrong, FedEx is a great company.Truly a great company.
A well done retrospective on both UPS and FedEx is titled UPS/FedEx Inside the Shipping Wars on CNBC.Here’s a youtube link to it.The piece is not talking about one company being better than the other.It is solely a retrospective of each company and very worth the watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZu_gxi3sbs
The airline division at UPS isn’t even a pimple on the butt of what UPS is as a worldwide corporation and what they are trying to accomplish.We might not see their brilliance at a line pilot level.And in fact shake our head at recent failures TNT, postal, DHL.But make no mistake, as a global logistics behemoth, UPS is PHD level brilliant.They hire the best and the brightest and are a global powerhouse.And very cash rich.
As per the CNBC piece, hopefully it gives a glimpse just how advanced UPS and FedEx are in the global marketplace.
So what is the uniqueness of being a UPS employee that sets it apart from anything I’ve seen?What is the downside?The downside is their supreme arrogance.This results in their perceived (and actual) right to be just short of psychotic in their need to control.Everything.Their collective management mindset is that all their employees will try to steal from them.They therefore must be controlled and monitored at all times.
It’s their company.They can run it as they see fit.Unfortunately, that is the culture that has existed here long before I got here.
Pilots often forget a Golden Rule in the airline industry:A company doesn’t exist for their benefit.UPS will do what they want, when they want.And enjoy the fight with the IPA and all their labor unions on the property every day as a result.Make no mistake, they enjoy it.Every day at UPS…….every single day, is another day of contract negotiations.The day a contract is ratified and signed into law, ok, maybe that is a .5 day off.The next morning?It starts all over again.UPS compiles data on everything and everyone and have warehouses full of hard drive data.Every day is another day in contract negotiations.
Which brings me to a truly unpleasant manifestation of their need to control;the much talked about FQS / NURP system.This system, created, monied and carried today by UPS is an abomination to unions and the employees.Truly unique in the world.A frontal assault on unions as a, “double breasting”, operation.Born by UPS as a means to micromanage its line pilots and ultimately be a one week stop-gap strike breaker.They will all time out in a week running a skeleton operation in a strike.And that’s exactly what UPS wants them to do….fly until they can’t legally fly anymore.
This is millions of dollars…..millions……that UPS spends to get their control freak on.How long the system will be financed into the future, nobody knows.
Which brings me to my next point relating to their need to control; secrecy.UPS holds their cards VERY close to their chest.They trust nobody, including NURPs.This is why as line pilots we have zero intel as to how they are going to conduct interviews.We collectively know nothing about expansion, contraction, bases, plane orders, and on and on.We were as surprised as the rest of the industry when they announced hiring 40.You have to know how UPS operates to know that the line pilots know nothing.
Sooooooooooo…….if you have read this blather this far, what’s the point?What am I getting at?Do you come to UPS or not?
The answer is an unqualified yes.Absolutely positively yes.UPS is a great company.
Let me say another Golden Rule in aviation.A grizzled airline captain told me 23 years ago, “Son, there’s only one thing you need to look at when considering going to a company that you want to retire from; their bottom line.”.How much money does the company you are going to have vs what do they owe.UPS is a close as you will ever get to working for the US Government.To those UPS furloughed reading this, our collective hearts were with you the whole time and we are glad you are back.Don’t plan on buying any beer on layovers for a few years.Your furlough completely surprised everyone and yes yet again against a very tough company also unified us. UPS did not succeed in their quest to alienate the old vs young and we remain united today.
Having mentioned the furloughs, I stand by my statement that working for UPS is as close to working for the US Government as you will get.
And as we all know, we all won’t know if we made the right decision until we retire.But in the thought matrix of today of should I stay or should I go now…….UPS should be at the top of your list based on the bottom line alone as a company you can retire from with relative ease of minds that they will still exist when you retire.You are interviewing at a global powerhouse.A very smart, tough and rich company.They haven’t survived over 100 years because they are wilting flowers.Very much the opposite.
Remember, all pilots complain and b%^ch.Everywhere.All companies, even SWA that for years post de-regulation was a shining star and lesson to all airlines on how you could treat your employees well, pay them well, and make a decent profit, even SWA of today is complaining more and more.It’s both part of our business and apparently inherent to our pilot DNA to complain.You will be tired and probably unhappy as a junior guy no matter where you go.You might as well get paid the top in the industry along with our FedEx brethren.
I do not have a crystal ball for the future.I don’t know pax expansion, plane orders, etc.I do know that pax in general have a ton of retirements coming up.Where will you have more movement?IDK.I do know that UPS pays well, they don’t bother me on my days off, and have the hands down best bottom line in cold hard cash.They have a unique (read combative) way of managing.I won’t argue that at all.Now, have I ever had a problem with UPS management?No.I come in, do my job, go home.Play by their rules to the best of my abilities.I don’t pick fights with them as some like to do.I stand my ground but don’t poke them.You want to poke the 900 pound gorilla…..have at it.
A senior captain here told me a long time ago;you have to view yourself as a contract employee here at UPS.UPS wants one thing and one thing only from you; they want you to produce.Move boxes.They otherwise don’t care a wit about you.And I firmly believe that no other airline does as well.UPS has some quirks that do separate them from other airlines (FQS).Control issues.No question.But no company cares about you.Your union does at UPS.An INDEPENDENT union……not subject to national agendas.As much as UPS brings their quirks, the union brings on their own special blend of strengths.
But do I come to work filled with hate?Nope.Not at all.I come to work with a smile as much as any other pilot comes to work with a smile.As do my colleagues.It’s no different and you will not complain any more at UPS than you would at any other airline.No more or no less.You will have top notch guys to work with and a union behind you beyond what you’ve ever seen before.We are very cohesive for a reason…. that being UPS themselves.They do things out of the blue that continually bring us back together as a union.Remember, everything you see at UPS is there because the history of the IPA fought for it.And that came with a cost to the company in such a united union.And you know what?UPS likes it that way.
It’s business.All business.It is not personal.UPS loves the battle.It’s where they breath.And thankfully we have the union we do or they would eat us alive.And yes, other companies will do the same.UPS just brings their special brand of arrogance and control to the table.It’s all business and UPS does not exist for my benefit.They will do what they want when they want.They are rich and they are hiring.You won’t be more or less happier anywhere else you go, especially if you commute and junior.So you might as well get paid well for it.
In summary:
-the only thing that matters of a company you want to retire from is their bottom line
-there is no crystal ball
-a company does not exist for a pilots benefit
-UPS, while being tough, is a great job and we are all very lucky to be here
-UPS toughness is counterbalanced by a great union and great crews
-it is us, the line crews, that make the day to day of flying the line as pleasurable as it can be
For the poster with two years at SWA, you know and I know that seniority is everything. That is a very tough call. The only guarantee is that at least at this moment, you will make far more money at UPS. Retirements, expansion, resulting in moving up the list……..I can’t comment on which would be better. Consider what type of flying you want to do. I know for me personally….and again, it’s me personally because SWA is a great company, but for me personally 4,5,6,7 legs a day for me would get old real fast. UPS has a broad diversity of flying. Of airplanes. And routes.
My neighbor was a senior AA captain. We became friends. He had no idea about UPS. He learned over the years our contract. He was shocked beyond amazement. He had no idea. Zero. And in closing, as far as QOL, that very senior AA captain, up to the day he retired, was shooting for 1000 block hours by the end of November, so he could take December off. I have always flown a line. Always. My average block time per year is 470 again flying a full line every bid period. And I work 14-16 days a month.
Sorry for the long post. Hope everyone could hang in there and get something out of it. UPS, or any job, is what you make of it.
05-18-2021, 12:48 PM
#180
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,339
Originally Posted by tnkrdrvr
Hopefully the quote function works for such a long post. This post is as timely now as it was when first written.
I just wish he/she would’ve used the s p a c e function.Myeyesarehurting.. 😆
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