Airbum

Whalesurfer and others, I really enjoy the open civil disscussion, here is my take from the captain side, I hope I'm not taken as a senior guy pulling up the ladder.

For there truly to be a retirement B scale one would have to have done the same job but with a different payscale/retirement scale. That is not the case. I will concede the point that some will not have the ability to do the same job. Not everyone will make Captain but that does not a B scale make.

Also I would venture the idea that the flat rate retirement benefit is better for the FO (and FE back in the day) then the Captain. The FO can bypass for a unlimited time enjoying seniority and QOL, then on the very last day do the Captain gig and get the exact same retirement benefit as someone who slugged it out as a junior Captain. This higher paying retirement option would not be possible with the A plans top five years out of the last 10.

You don't have to agree but I wanted to state my thoughts.

Jetjok

I believe that Captains are paid more than First Officers (and Second Officers) for a number of reasons, some of which follow: 1) they've (usually) been working at the airline longer, and in those cases where they haven't, it's usually because the F/O or S/O either didn't want to, or couldn't make the upgrade; 2) because the Captain signs for the aircraft, he/she is more valuable to the company. As well, he/she usually is more knowledgeable in both company and flight operations; 3) Anyone who actually thinks that the Captain and First Officer do the same job, has never been a Captain. They might appear to be doing the same job, but I can assure you, that in the very vast majority of cases, they are not thinking of the same things at all. It's the same in military fighter operations. When I was a newbie, I thought I had the tougher job, hanging on the wing, light in the star, through all kinds of weather and attitudes. Then when I made element (and later flight) lead, I realized which was the tougher job. Same thing in commercial aviation.

busdriver12

Bingo, jetjok. When I was an fo, my primary concern was where I was going to eat and what I was going to do on the layover. As a capt, I'm thinking about a whole lot more. Thankfully most of the fo's I fly with now are thinking like captains, though they aren't required to! I really appreciate that, and realize that I should have been doing that quite a bit more.

whalesurfer

Likewise, enjoy the discussion and am trying to look at this issue from both sides. You're correct, this isn't a B-scale per se. In a way it's a permanent-FO / permanent-retirement-penalty situation.
..the fo position is permanent because ..well, they'll turn 65 before their number comes up. The retirement "penalty" is permanent too, as in for the rest of his/her life the pension will be 20% less than if he/she was a captain for a single day.

Debating how he/she ended up in that position is pointless; furloughed from several previous airlines, stuck at a regional for a long time, military commitment, etc., etc. Not really interested in "well, he/she should've done this or that" because that's not helping anyone at this point. Looking for solutions to a retirement problem many of our pilots might end up with.

Yes, it's true that some FOs by-pass until the very end of their careers (very ballsy from my perspective). However, it's also true that many won't ever upgrade. Even if they take the very first available CA seat, they'll turn 65 before they'll have a shot.

So is there a way to ease the 20% retirement penalty on them while addressing those who are by-passing? (I'm biased as I quite possibly could end up in this group) In other words, could we make both camps happy, or happier?

Of course, if we were to put an end to the nonsensical and unsafe NURPtopian reality of our trucking company, we wouldn't even be having this discussion..

This NURPmare of ours must end. :-|

Night_Hawk

I cant believe i am reading a thread explaining to someone that the Captains have more responsibility, therefore they are going to get paid more.

As far as equal retirement.

Come on. We are all dealt a pile of ****. Deals with yours. Don't ask your union brothers to bail you out.

Sideshow probably could have had 40 yrs if he never was furloughed from us airways. the a plan also had a 2.25(?) a plan multiplier.
Lets make it up to him, and others who had to deal w any airline hardship.

Btw- not sure i'll ever upgrade

Sideshow Bob

Hmmmm...maybe I should sue USAir for their lousy management, SWA for having a superior business model, the government for gutting the A plan and ALPA for taking three years to cough up for bare bones medical insurance.

Seems to be the way bad luck/bad choices are dealt with these days.

I misread the tea leaves in '89 by going there in the first place...nobody's fault but mine. But ALPA not only didn't help furloughees like IPA, but the membership actively maxed out open-time pickup. Management is supposed to ruthlessly max profit while unions are supposed to advocate for and support their dues paying membership. My point is ALPA miserably failed while IPA rose to the challenge better than any other union has. While that gets UPSPillot's panties in a wad (his screen name keeps changing but his message hasn't), it's the unvarnished truth.

Now there's a narrative that the junior are being trampled underfoot by the IPA. There's a narrative that because of UPS' business model and management, bigger jets, loss of 3 seaters, age 65 and the economy that we must turn everything upside down like nobody else ever has.

OK...fine.

Purpletailed10

FDXLAG

I think the bar is open over there.

Vito

Veruca Salt Tantrum - Gfycat

Sideshow Bob

So THATS where UPSPilott went.