I think you're missing the point. We don't need any incentives, they're there already but many simply won't have the option to upgrade. A large percentage of FOs won't upgrade not because they're bypassing by choice but because they'll turn 65 before they'll have a chance to do so.

This is not about needing an incentive, this is about the present realities. 5 days ago I had a conversation with a guy about just that. He'll turn 65 in 7 years. Optimistically speaking he's at least 10-11 years from earliest possible left seat (any domicile/any airplane, qol not even being considered). So he'll retire as an fo which he's ok with. However, for the rest of his life his pension will be 20% less than if he'd been a captain for a single day. That's what I call the secondary B-plan and it should be changed because so many new-hires nowadays are older than in the past.

 

He's the "new average". Many of you, more senior pilots were hired much younger, when you were still in your 30s. While there were exceptions, overall that's no longer the case. ..and most were all civilian pilots who'd been furloughed multiple times. Look at the birth dates on your gendec next time you fly. Quite a few of your fos are about your age or older than you. And many have years and years before they'll ever have a chance to upgrade.

That's the main reason the disconnect exists here. Many of those who criticize the "complainers" believe they were hired just out of college and eventually things will get better for them because that's what happened to you all. Well, sure they will. In the retirement home.

 

+1
...and their tactics are working.

For many of us that would be a yes.
..I think they know but not sure if it has any priority. This is a captain airline.. Maybe if we were over 60 FEs awaiting for the retirement age to change... Oops, sorry, having flashbacks to the recent past...

PS. Good post.

.

 

Is the kitchen getting too hot for you?

 

Whalesurfer,

Thank you for being a reasonable voice of the 20-25% that we are talking about. Being reasonable goes a lot further than just a non-stop vomit of hate that some like to engage in. Blowing off steam / venting is one thing. I hope its just that.

I just emailed the negotiating committee with the B scale retirement concerns. Clearly telling them to make the calculation the same calculation for the A plan regardless of seat position.

All have to voice their concerns and desires to the negotiating committee and I'd advise everyone to do the same.

I originally copied and pasted the email address here but don't know if the negotiating committee would like that posted on a public forum.

Go to the IPA website. Lefthand side, click on Contract for All. Upper right hand side, "contact us". Email will be listed. Took twenty seconds to get the email address and 40 seconds to write it depending on how fast you type.

Thanks for the productive discussion. Let the NC know your thoughts.

Remember.....UPS wants a 51% contract ratified. The last thing they want is 80-90% of the pilot group voting for a contract. The more UPS can divide the better in their (twisted) viewpoint. Changing anything in a contract will require negotiating capital. And I feel confident that the NC is trying to balance that whole picture. Just as in the last contract when it required a reduction in retirement to fix the f/o pay slope.

Ironic that your last post was your 108. Maybe its a sign that things will get better!! Remember one guy went to the dark side of the original 109.

108% IPA!

 

The vote is NO as long as scabs are continued to be tolerated. No matter what else is on the table.

Also we need single pay rate system. As in Captain=FO. The direction things are headed at this continuously shrinking "airline", this is the only way to make the UPS curse easier to swallow.

Just in case Vito is confused: (raise FO pay to meet captain, not the other way around).

 

I don't know about Vito, but you certainly have ME confused. Are you saying the hourly pay should be the same for Capt & FO? I hope you just did not "explain" your position clearly, or I am misunderstanding.

 

As long as we are sentenced to the right seat for the rest of our careers here....the pay ought to be same as the left-seater.

 

I have done the opposite. The retirement calculation is essentially the same for everyone right now. 1% unless you have already turned 60 or will by the end of next year.

>You will get the Flat Dollar if your 60th birthday is before 31 Dec 2016 since a new contract was not signed by 31 Dec 2013.<

Unless there is a new flat dollar amount in the new contract, the A plan retirement will be an equal percentage. The difference is in your FAE. Obviously captains make more so theirs will be higher.

I will not reward the 383 bypassing FOs with the same retirement. They are actively making a choice. QOL over money.

I will entertain the idea for FOs who will retire without the ability to upgrade/bypass.

 

That's what I thought, but I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. You prove the point that every group has it's 1%'ers, congratulations.