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Old 09-19-2009, 08:18 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Clocks View Post
I don't think it's accurate to say there is a "quality" difference between seat 23B in a 737 and seat 6C on an RJ. Both are miserable experiences. In fact when I non-rev I seek out RJs unless there is a chance to get upgraded to first, boarding/deplaning is so much faster.

The issue isn't that "Passengers often ride RJ's and turbo-props" as you brought up, its that those planes are operated by the lowest bidders who then have to corners across the board (which you also brought up). RJs and TPs being flown by mainline pilots at respectable rates would be fantastic.

I doubt we disagree, I'm just responding to how I interpreted your post.
From my perspective there is a huge quality advantage to an airliner with multiple lavatories and flight attendants, room for everyone's luggage, isn't usually at min fuel status the moment it leaves the gate, and that you don't have to walk outside to board. I agree that individual seat comfort & pitch varies widely--death row inmates have more space than most coach passengers. And yes, they should be maintained, dispatched and flown by mainline carriers who have the resources to do it right.
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:07 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by BeenThere
Passengers often ride RJ's and turbo-props where we used to fly 737's, and 737's now go where DC-10's and 747's used to. So there's a much bigger story here than just Q400 operators--they're only flying because they were the lowest bidder for a major airline contract. The ultimate responsibility for the quality of their product lies in the boardrooms of the carriers who hired them.
Originally Posted by BeenThere View Post
From my perspective there is a huge quality advantage to an airliner with multiple lavatories and flight attendants, room for everyone's luggage, isn't usually at min fuel status the moment it leaves the gate, and that you don't have to walk outside to board. I agree that individual seat comfort & pitch varies widely--death row inmates have more space than most coach passengers. And yes, they should be maintained, dispatched and flown by mainline carriers who have the resources to do it right.

What does this have to do with SAFETY? And min fuel status, HA! Have you even flown an RJ?







OO.

Last edited by IC ALL; 09-19-2009 at 03:14 PM. Reason: mod comments
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:38 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by BeenThere View Post
From my perspective there is a huge quality advantage to an airliner with multiple lavatories and flight attendants, room for everyone's luggage, isn't usually at min fuel status the moment it leaves the gate, and that you don't have to walk outside to board. I agree that individual seat comfort & pitch varies widely--death row inmates have more space than most coach passengers. And yes, they should be maintained, dispatched and flown by mainline carriers who have the resources to do it right.
Agreed, so why do airline managers persist in refusing to fly a 777 from Peoria to Wichita? Three reasons: Cost, Money and Profit.

There's an old joke which applies here. A young computer engineer perfects a printer which never needs ink or paper refills, gives flawless, HD picture quality copies and can run over 100 years without need of repair. After presenting his work to his wife, she asked "how much will this printer cost?" "A million dollars each.......but we only need to sell one".

The airlines are in the same predicament. While there may be a market for comfort and high quality service (e.g. Midwest Airlines) it is a very small niche which may not be financially sustainable in today's market (e.g. Midwest Airlines).
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:45 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by FlyJSH View Post
Are YOU are one of those pilots who are unwilling to risk your job to try to improve things? If so, don't whine about how nobody is willing to fix things for YOU, because YOU are part of the problem.

It's unfortunate that the FAA runs on tombstone regulation, but right now, we have a chance to have a voice if WE have the 'stones. I have contacted Mr. O'brien (have not heard back yet), but I AM willing to make a statement.

This boat we are all in is called Aviation, and it's taking on water. Grab a bucket and bail, or else don't be surprised when you drown!
Well said and agreed. I would advise anyone who talks to avoid personal attacks such as CEO Chokesondik won't be happy until a plane full of passengers are killed or even naming the airline such as I work for the industry's most dangerous airline; Flybynite Airways nicknamed "F'n'A". '

My humble advise is to look around the industry, and focus on what regs or system problem need to be changed in order to produce a safer product such as changes in the FT/DT rules and better pay. Explain the time and expense of training coupled with the fact we're all one medical away from being unemployed without even a kiss goodbye.
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Old 09-19-2009, 07:24 PM
  #35  
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Miles O'Brien is a respected friend of aviation, aerospace technology and the environment. If you are not familiar with his reporting I can assure you that he will report only the honest facts.

Miles O'Brien - Uplinks - True/Slant

Deregulation has been a double edged sword. It has allowed competition to provide cheap transportation to the masses while simultaneously and quietly lowering safety and quality to the barest minimum.

Last edited by winglet; 09-20-2009 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 09-20-2009, 04:57 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by OscarOscar View Post
What does this have to do with SAFETY? And min fuel status, HA! Have you even flown an RJ?

OO.
Comfort on board has nothing to do with safety, but if you offer a washboard seat and a single smelly lav and your competition offers something better then you have a problem. Never flown an RJ, but I've noticed they're always first to divert when the weather goes down.
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Old 09-20-2009, 11:01 AM
  #37  
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Frontline is authentic investigative journalism, and it can lead to action. I remember one story about six years ago about a wrongly convicted poor kid that resulted in such a deluge of mail (5000+ letters) that the case was reopened and overturned, solely because of a Frontline investigation.

I've been around a long time, but I know I still haven't seen it all and done it all, but I do know there are some 24 year old 121 captains out there who don't even know what they don't know. They can't; there is a certain level of awareness, vigilance, and discipline that can only come from decades of experience. This is not meant as a personal attack against any particular pilot, but it truly is all I can think about when I watch my family board a jet with a skipper who was born the year I learned how to fly.

Request anonymity, but please grow a spine and help this man develop a story that has a chance of improving this industry for everyone, especially the passengers who are at our mercy. If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Fly safe.

Last edited by 3XLoser; 09-20-2009 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 09-20-2009, 04:30 PM
  #38  
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i hope when the show airs, the narator is the dude with "the voice". I always practice "the Voice" in my baron, but it has no effect on checks...soob.
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Old 09-20-2009, 06:27 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by winglet View Post
Miles O'Brien is a respected friend of aviation, aerospace technology and the environment. If you are not familiar with his reporting I can assure you that he will report only the honest facts.

Miles O'Brien - Uplinks - True/Slant

Deregulation has been a double edged sword. It has allowed competition to provide cheap transportation to the masses while simultaneously and quietly lowering safety and quality to the barest minimum.
I would like to see your source for this statement. I assure you, aviation is MUCH safer today than it was during regulation.
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Old 09-20-2009, 07:27 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by milesobrien View Post
PBS Frontline is doing an hour long documentary on the airline industry post deregulation - with a focus on issues raised in the Colgan 3407 crash. We are looking for current/former regional pilots to talk with us on background on issues and concerns they have as it relates to safety. We are also looking for pilots with time in the Q400 - and we hopee - some access to a full mission sim. Please respond here or send an email to pilot/plane owner/reporter Miles O'Brien at [email protected].

Please go away.

You are a journalist first, and a pilot last. You defame our profession with your ill advised commentary on television. Anyone who aids you in dirtying our business anymore than the fringe media has thus far is no friend of the professional pilot.

Regards,
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