squib

Where do you get 2-3 per class from the 3 that have moved on since CPP was announced 12 months ago?

Grumbletrousers

10 are planned to go this year. Safe to assume 20 will go next year. I don’t think that’s 3 per class but at least it’s something.

stroopwaffle

2 left for a September class

3 left for an October class

I would say that qualifies as 2-3 per class. Apparently no one left for the late October class, so I guess I’m full of shyte.

5 have left for UA. That’s better than 0.

squib

5 over a period of more than 12 months since CPP enrollment. Hardly 2-3 per class.

Of course it’s better than zero but the program is a joke and there are no defined details.

Why do some of you eat this garbage up like free food in another trashy basement crew room?

CanWeGetTheLeft

First time caller, long time listener.

Squib, you don’t have to make it seem worse than it actually is, which is what you are doing here.

What we don’t know about the CPP is pretty bad, and completely shameful. We have no idea what the Hogan or interview pass rate is. Guys who are on the list have no real way of verifying how many people are ahead of them that have also met the requirements. We don’t know if there is a minimum number of Air Wisconsin pilots that are supposed to be in each new hire class moving forward, and we don’t know if it’s a percentage of each class or a flat number per class.

But one thing we have known is that we were not going to be sending pilots until we had been flying for United for about a year. So your statement “5 over a 12 month period” while technically accurate (I think?), it’s a misrepresentation. “5 pilots over the last X classes” is a better way of putting it.

It’s still not a trend. No way to tell until a lot more classes have started with or without Air Wisconsin CPP Pilots in them.

DarkSideMoon

Agreed. I don’t think anyone who isn’t super senior is putting a lot of faith in the CPP, but we just don’t have the data yet to show if it’s worthwhile or not. If the company would ever start communicating with their pilots instead of treating us like red headed step children it would probably reduce a lot of tension.

StrykerB21

Lets give the benefit of the doubt and say for arguments sake that Air Wisconsin will be sending 3 a month. Thats 36 a year. Anyone thats come on property since the United flying began will be waiting over 15 years for their chance. And thats only if they pass the hogan, the interview, and have a perfect attendance record during all that time.

These programs are designed to staff the regional, not the legacy. This program is a carrot on a stick that will be just out of reach for the vast majority of people at ZW, in order to keep them at ZW.

CanWeGetTheLeft

Agree with most of your points, but your math is off. 544 pilots/36 does equal 15 years for everyone on the FLICA list to go.

The high number guy that’s going to UAL in November was the 36th person on the overall enrollment list that was last released.

Some of the people above him have not interviewed, because they enrolled at the end of the window. Some of them did take the hogan, or interviewed, but were shot down. Some of them don’t have 4 year degrees. We don’t know. And because we don’t know, speculating on how long it’s going to take for this program to work through the list is meaningless. It could be 3-4 years for a guy that just got hired, or it could be never.

The CPP is a expedited ticket to interview at UAL (twice!), and that’s it. I think the biggest problem that most people have is that it is marketed as “career progression” in the same way that the AA WO’s market the flow. It’s not.

DarkSideMoon

Not to mention the fact that if our CPP is structured similarly to Expressjet or others it’s a percentage of each newhire class. This was a slow year for hiring at united so it’s a small total amount of us going. As they start hiring more and more more people should theoretically be going every month.

John Carr

That doesn't make it that much different than XJT's at first.

There was NO information sharing from UAL, the company (XJT), etc at first. It was all word of mouth and pilots that voluntarily shared their experience.

Actually, not really. Since hiring began, TO DATE, it's been the 3rd busiest. If they have all the planned classes, it's shaping up to be the 2nd busiest. 2015 saw about 830 new hires. This year should be over 600.

Last year was slow, with just under 300. And 25% of those were XJT CPP's. I can't remember how many were Commutair.